Blazeking new insert

[black smoke signals]

PI29 anyone have this?
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/PDF/manuals/OM-PI29-E.pdf)

 

[AaronMColeman]

How is that different from the regular Princess Insert? Is this new?

 

[begreen]

The current Princess insert is (was?) the model PI 1010A. That's what's listed in the Oct. EPA docs. The firebox size for the P129 is a little bit smaller. Clearances are higher than the 1010A. EPA 2020 stove?

 

[black smoke signals]

Go to BK web site it’s a new insert for 2020

 

[jetsam]

Well!

Going strictly by the spec sheets, the new PI is a smaller firebox, and low burn is twice the BTU output of the old PI.

I wonder if this is a change in the stove or the testing methods.

 

[Highbeam]

I sure hope the 2020 regs don’t damage performance of the bk models.

 

[jetsam]

I sure hope the 2020 regs don’t damage performance of the bk models.

If my low burn was double what it is now, I would certainly be less happy with the PI as a shoulder season heater.

The old one can burn 24/7 through 60 degree days (and is doing so right now at my house).

Maybe it's time for BK to go to steel cats to allow better emissions at low firebox temperatures. My PI works great with a steel cat.

I bet you will see a lot of stoves from a lot of manufacturers losing their low range entirely. What else are tube stove makers going to do?

 

[begreen]

I sure hope the 2020 regs don’t damage performance of the bk models.

With the larger clearances I wonder if it is a bit more radiant than the older insert? If so that could be benefit for people looking for heat during power outages as long as their installation meets the clearance requirements.

 

[jetsam]

According to the drawings it sticks out 3/8" less than the old one. Not a big shift, they are both about 13".

The old PI does pretty well without a blower. I don't use it until winter really sets in. Its little stovetop ledge is big enough to accommodate one of those TEG powered fans, too.

 

[BKVP]

So, the PI1010A had a low Btu range of around 12,254. The new PI29 has low burn range of around 12, 279. There were a few other appearance changes made to make the unit more appealing and also make installation easier.

All manufacturers are designing, testing, retesting all wood and pellet heaters for EPA's 2020 compliance. The test method (Method 28) is now Method 28R, the R meaning Revised.

The changes in the method were very slight, filter sample pull after first hour, tightening of MC range etc. If you visit EPA's wood stove list, updated monthly, you will find 43 wood heaters that meet 2020 compliance. 23 non catalyst and 20 catalyst units. (Plus a slew of pellet heaters)

When you compare numbers from prior models to retested units, you will find every so slight changes. Pay attention to units highlighted in green as they are the units that were tested to the revised method. Keep in mind, just because a stove is 2.0 or less does not mean it meets the 2020 compliance requirements.

The very definition of "standard" is a passing grade when tested to a specified test method. On March 16, 2015, EPA released the new NSPS and that is when industry learned of the specific changes to the method, again Method 28R.

It should be a very busy year in stove companies and a test labs!

 

[jetsam]

So, the PI1010A had a low Btu range of around 12,254. The new PI29 has low burn range of around 12, 279.

The PI1010A manual specifies a low burn of 6200 BTU. Is that a typo or something?

 

[begreen]

The PI1010A manual specifies a low burn of 6200 BTU. Is that a typo or something?

That is the "real world" listing. Not exactly sure what that means. The EPA test shows a low burn rate of 10,633 BTU/hr.

 

[jetsam]

That is the "real world" listing. Not exactly sure what that means. The EPA test shows a low burn rate of 10,633 BTU/hr.

Hmm, says so right on the page I screenshotted.
In my defense, the first thing that page says after the title is "Minimum heat output 6200 BTU", without any qualifiers to indicate that there might be a second 'minimum' value.

The new PI book doesn't seem to mention "real world" BTU values. Hopefully it turns down just as far; I am guessing it probably does.

If they can do the testing that way, maybe everyone doesn't have to cut the lowest ranges out of their stoves- they just need a manual that tells the operator not to use 'em.

 

[BKVP]

Hmm, says so right on the page I screenshotted.
In my defense, the first thing that page says after the title is "Minimum heat output 6200 BTU", without any qualifiers to indicate that there might be a second 'minimum' value.

The new PI book doesn't seem to mention "real world" BTU values. Hopefully it turns down just as far; I am guessing it probably does.

If they can do the testing that way, maybe everyone doesn't have to cut the lowest ranges out of their stoves- they just need a manual that tells the operator not to use 'em.

The new model burns just as low. As mentioned previously, go look at the EPA site. You will see the ranges have changed very slightly, both up and down based upon combustion technology employed.

 

[Highbeam]

Fingers crossed that the wide range of available outputs from all bk stoves remains in place after proving compliance with the new regulations. Even better if the stoves have lower emissions. I don’t think anyone would complain about lower emissions. Oh and efficiency, please don’t give up efficiency either!

 

[begreen]

Hmm, says so right on the page I screenshotted.
In my defense, the first thing that page says after the title is "Minimum heat output 6200 BTU", without any qualifiers to indicate that there might be a second 'minimum' value.

I didn't mean to put you on the spot. Look down at the bottom of that same page where more info on output is provided.

 

[jetsam]

Fingers crossed that the wide range of available outputs from all bk stoves remains in place after proving compliance with the new regulations. Even better if the stoves have lower emissions. I don’t think anyone would complain about lower emissions. Oh and efficiency, please don’t give up efficiency either!

And don't give up ice cream! I still haven't received my retrofit stove ice cream generator, and am deeply disappointed.