Boiler install.

[Catienla]

I moved a Shaver outdoor 165 boiler to a different location and I am having trouble getting the heated water to the HX . The difference between the two locations is that the new location, boiler is lower than the HX. First location boiler was above HX, ran this system since 2011 no problems, pump had probably 4-5 feet elevation difference to lift. The new location boiler is appprox. 8-10 ft. below HX (for convivence). Running a B&G NFR22 pump, water in boiler is hot just can't pump it to the HX. Not sure where to go from here, air vents, bigger pump, check valves. Going bald pulling hairs. Any help will be appreciated. New to this post, hope I didn't violate guidelines. Thanks,Mike

 

[jquickj]

I moved a Shaver outdoor 165 boiler to a different location and I am having trouble getting the heated water to the HX . The difference between the two locations is that the new location, boiler is lower than the HX. First location boiler was above HX, ran this system since 2011 no problems, pump had probably 4-5 feet elevation difference to lift. The new location boiler is appprox. 8-10 ft. below HX (for convivence). Running a B&G NFR22 pump, water in boiler is hot just can't pump it to the HX. Not sure where to go from here, air vents, bigger pump, check valves. Going bald pulling hairs. Any help will be appreciated. New to this post, hope I didn't violate guidelines. Thanks,Mike

My guess is it's air locked. Good piping practice is to put vents at the high points, drains at low points. Put a vent at the HX and verify you have water there. If not might be a pump issue.

 

[salecker]

Maybe some pictures of your setup would help
All my plumbing is higher than my boiler as you can see in my av picture and it works fine
Is the Shaver a open or pressurized system?

 

[sloeffle]

My guess is it's air locked. Good piping practice is to put vents at the high points, drains at low points. Put a vent at the HX and verify you have water there. If not might be a pump issue.

That would be my guess too. Put a T in your line in the basement with a garden hose fitting on it, hook a garden hose to it and it will push all of the air out.

 

[brenndatomu]

My guess is it's air locked. Good piping practice is to put vents at the high points, drains at low points. Put a vent at the HX and verify you have water there

That would be my guess too. Put a T in your line in the basement with a garden hose fitting on it, hook a garden hose to it and it will push all of the air out.

This ^ ^ ^

 

[Catienla]

Vent both lines? Can’t get my head wrapped around how the water will stay in the HX without the pump running constantly.

 

[Catienla]

Open system. Can't get in my head how system will hold water when the pump is not running.

 

[brenndatomu]

Trapped air will do some VERY strange things!
Can you open anything up at/near the HX to bleed it? If not just cut in a valve...easy place to add water then in the future too.
Not exactly your setup, but just a drawing of how air can block off a pipe, even with pressure behind it...but with your setup having a definite high spot, I'd bet the air pocket is there...but could be in a couple spots as illustrated here. The larger the air pocket, the harder it can be to get out (unless bled to a "high spot")

 

[jquickj]

1 vent on the higher of the HX ports will be enough. Install the vent, turn the pump on, then crack your vent valve open until you get a solid stream of water. Once you vent the air out of HX line you should be fine. Even though your system is open, water will stay in that supply return line because any water that "falls" back to the boiler on the return will draw water into the supply line. Imagine a siphon.

 

[Catienla]

Sometimes the brain overrides common sense, I understand what you are explaining, the water that will gravity drain from the HX will be replaced with water from the boiler storage through siphon. Grew up in a three-story house with coal fired water boiler (closed system) and every year at start of heating season, the radiators upstairs had to be bled. I still have keys on an old keychain. Just couldn't understand how an open system would work. As long as both pipes remain under water it is essentially a closed loop. Thanks for teaching an old dog a new trick. You guys have been great, thanks again, Mike

 

[brenndatomu]

So you got it working then?
You can have mostly the same issues with bleeding air out, no matter if closed or open system

 

[sloeffle]

Sometimes the brain overrides common sense, I understand what you are explaining, the water that will gravity drain from the HX will be replaced with water from the boiler storage through siphon. Grew up in a three-story house with coal fired water boiler (closed system) and every year at start of heating season, the radiators upstairs had to be bled. I still have keys on an old keychain. Just couldn't understand how an open system would work. As long as both pipes remain under water it is essentially a closed loop. Thanks for teaching an old dog a new trick. You guys have been great, thanks again, Mike

That's the whole idea behind putting a T in your basement / crawl space etc. and using a pressurized water via garden hose to push water into the system. The water pressure will push any air out, that's how I filled my boiler.

 

[brenndatomu]

That's the whole idea behind putting a T in your basement / crawl space etc. and using a pressurized water via garden hose to push water into the system. The water pressure will push any air out, that's how I filled my boiler.

How does the elevation of your boiler compare to the HX?

 

[sloeffle]

How does the elevation of your boiler compare to the HX?

My boiler is easily 3' higher than where it goes into my basement, and my plate and HX are below that.

 

[brenndatomu]

My boiler is easily 3' higher than where it goes into my basement, and my plate and HX are below that.

Nice...so if you have a fill valve in the basement, then you are golden!

 

[sloeffle]

Nice...so if you have a fill valve in the basement, then you are golden!

My dealer actually gave me the tip on setting it up that way. A lot of folks have a sink in their basement, so I rigged up a small piece of garden hose with two female ends on it to work with my sink.