Boxwood stove update(everyone in household is still alive)

[bcrewcaptain]

So we're well into the next season of burning with the stove, have yet to turn the heat pump on.
Picked up a plate steel stove/fireplace insert to try to see if I wanted to go a different route, firebox was roughly twice the size, and made an amazing amount of heat, but was just going thru too much wood to keep that huge firebox warm. So back to the Tractor Supply special we go.
In my last thread the modifications I had done were discussed, but I will quickly skim over them again.
*All seams were totally sealed, even though I did not have any issues in the first place

*front ash pan was cemented in place and sealed(this is the biggest design flaw with these stoves)

*top cooking plates sealed(fit well initially, but I will never need to remove them, so eliminated that potential issue)

*Front intake wheel was poorly cast, I pulled off and sanded down so it was totally flat

*firebrick last season was just on bottom and up one level(horizontally), this season it is two levels, and roughly 2" from the top now.

*Baffle made from angle iron and firebrick.baffle is at roughly a 30* angle and extends a couple inches past the flue, keeping the fire from vented right out the flue and losing all that heat.

The baffle is new this year, and is making a HUGE difference, as is the 2nd level of firebrick.
Flue temps have dropped, while stove top temps have increased by over 100* so obviously I'm getting a more complete burn.
Right now I'm seeing a flue temp of around 350, stovetop is cruising at 575* or so.
This is a hodgepodge of wood. All types, a lot was craiglist freebies that were borederline past their prime,. but free btus are free. I also burn a lot of scrap framing from jobsites(non-treated pine 2x4s and such)

I'm sure there will be plenty of folks that will respond with "get a new stove and get a 14hr burn, etc"
This stove allows me to operate differently than I would be with a newer stove.
Spent quite a bit of time picking the brain of the local fireplace/stove shop, and he agreed that for the way I burn, a newer stove would be a poor choice since very little of what I burn is solid well seasoned wood, Most of the wood I have was just split last yr, so except for the poplar and pine, the rest needs another yr at least. Plus much of the wood I have is in the 20-25" range, and I REALLY don't feel like trimming them all down.
loaded up with the longer wood and a mix of seasoned/almost seasoned wood, my night burns are averaging around 8 hours with enough coals for a quick restart!

That being said, it's a comfy 78* in the house now, I think I'll have a cold beer. Just figured I'd share the update on the killer stove that is doing an amazing job currently.

 

[BrotherBart]

Sounds like success to me.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

Thanks, a fair amount of work has gone into to it, but not much $ wise, which is right up my alley.
But now I have less than $500 into a stove that will burn all night, burns all the crap wood I can toss into it, and doubles as a nice cookstove as needed. Win/Win
Right out of the box, I would not recommend this for a first time user, but it's def turned into a worthwhile piece of equipment.

 

[webby3650]

The last boxwood stove we carried out, yes picked up the turd and carried it out... Two of the legs broke off when we set it down. Pretty scary if you ask me.

I've bought lots of really nice high quality stoves for $500+\-. Safe and run great right out of the gate. I'm glad you've figured out some ways around the problems with this stove still seems like a gamble to me though.

 

[bholler]

I've bought lots of really nice high quality stoves for $500+\-. Safe and run great right out of the gate. I'm glad you've figured out some ways around the problems with this stove still seems like a gamble to me though.

Yeah the castings are still crap and are very prone to cracking along with lots of other issues. The air leaks are really only part of the problem I see with these stoves

 

[bcrewcaptain]

The last boxwood stove we carried out, yes picked up the turd and carried it out... Two of the legs broke off when we set it down. Pretty scary if you ask me.

I've bought lots of really nice high quality stoves for $500+\-. Safe and run great right out of the gate. I'm glad you've figured out some ways around the problems with this stove still seems like a gamble to me though.

High quality isn't for me!
non-epa is what I need for the wood I use frequently(next yr will be a diff story as mine will be properly seasoned by then).

The firebox size was a huge reason for this choice as well, the ability to shove a 25" piece in the thing has cut down on cutting time in the woods by a huge amount.
I honestly don't see what is left to gamble on at this point. It's a rectangular box that holds fire in, puts heat out*shrug* I like to tinker and short of buying the plate and welding it myself, I could not have come up with a bare bones design that would have been too much better. Very little I have done HAD to be done, but was done in the mode of experimenting.
I would like to keep the plate steel one I have, just don't want to keep feeding the thing my while stash of wood.
After looking at new stoves, the firebox is just WAY too small for my current wood supply, and I know I would have issues with the cats, etc

 

[begreen]

When looking for a replacement take a gander at the Buck 261. It will take a 21" log.
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/model-261.html#.WF3r7bYrKu4)

 

[bcrewcaptain]

When looking for a replacement take a gander at the Buck 261. It will take a 21" log.
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/model-261.html#.WF3r7bYrKu4)

I had looked at several similar models when I was at the stove store talking to the owner, sadly there are only a couple models out there period that can take a 23-27" log(which is where I have roughly 12 cords cut hardwood cut currently), plus the fact that I frequently drop job site cutoffs in, all take me back to a pre-epa model.
Besides that, if I even entertained the idea of spending $1300+ on a woodstove, the wife would also suggest I make it comfortable to live in as well. Budget approves of this stove, any more expense and we would just put the money toward the elec bill and continue to run the heat pump.

 

[begreen]

OK, probably best to move this to the pre-EPA Classics then.

 

[bholler]

plus the fact that I frequently drop job site cutoffs in, all take me back to a pre-epa model.

so find an old fisher or fisher copy they are far from efficient but they are safe and reliable.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

so find an old fisher or fisher copy they are far from efficient but they are safe and reliable.

out of curiosity at this point, what advantage would that have over my current stove? or the one I have been tested? Or my old Jotul for that matter?If you have owned these, I would be interested in hearing if they fit my criteria.I have not seen any fisher stoves that could handle the length.

 

[bholler]

out of curiosity at this point, what advantage would that have over my current stove? or the one I have been tested? Or my old Jotul for that matter?If you have owned these, I would be interested in hearing if they fit my criteria.I have not seen any fisher stoves that could handle the length.

Old jotuls are great stoves your current stove is not I have seen way to many of them with huge cracks in the sides hinges that broke off in the middle of a burn tops that cracked ect ect. The quality of the castings is so inconsistent you simply cant trust them. So the advantages of a high quality cast stove like your old jotul. Or a steel body stove is that they wont randomly crack for no apparent reason other than the horrible casting quality. If you could find one at a god price my old stove would fit your needs very well. The cawley lemay took 25" splits and had an early clean burn system. It worked pretty well I just got tired of loading through the little door but you don't seem to mind that.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

Old jotuls are great stoves your current stove is not I have seen way to many of them with huge cracks in the sides hinges that broke off in the middle of a burn tops that cracked ect ect. The quality of the castings is so inconsistent you simply cant trust them. So the advantages of a high quality cast stove like your old jotul. Or a steel body stove is that they wont randomly crack for no apparent reason other than the horrible casting quality. If you could find one at a god price my old stove would fit your needs very well. The cawley lemay took 25" splits and had an early clean burn system. It worked pretty well I just got tired of loading through the little door but you don't seem to mind that.

Door size is a non issue for us, we have a well insulated house, normally only tossing a single piece in every few hours except at night. I'm sure these have very spotty QC, I accept that. I brazed all the joints solid, that is a non-issue, went over everything several times since it first went into use, nothing has changed. If it does, I've gotten pretty good at welding cast over the years, so that is certainly an easy fix as well. I understand everyone will have varying opinions on stoves.But at this price point, it def does more than everything I need it to, and in a safe manner. At this point my only gripe would be silly door handle design, but I'll be welding up a new design this weekend anyway.

 

[bholler]

I brazed all the joints solid,

That makes the risk of cracking panels even higher.

I've gotten pretty good at welding cast over the years, so that is certainly an easy fix as well.

Yes unless it develops a large crack over night which now that you have it all brazed together could spread from one panel to another.

it def does more than everything I need it to, and in a safe manner.

Until it isn't safe anymore Which could happen very quickly. especially with the fact that you brazed it all together. And then if you weld on it that again just increases the risk of cracking.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

That makes the risk of cracking panels even higher.


Yes unless it develops a large crack over night which now that you have it all brazed together could spread from one panel to another.


Until it isn't safe anymore Which could happen very quickly. especially with the fact that you brazed it all together. And then if you weld on it that again just increases the risk of cracking.

I see no need to turn this into a pissing match regarding a stove you do not have any first hand knowledge about, or apparently metallurgy.the last few statements make very little sense, but hey, if I end up with cracks as you seem to feel I will, I will take it to work, dip it in the tank, grind it out and weld as needed.
Just trying to share a post about modifications that can be done to a stove, to make it quite the functional little unit, for a cheap price. Is it for everyone? no, but if you happen to have the proper resources at hand, it doesn't take much to get a stove that performs very well, at a fraction of the cost of a "designer" stove.
If it was up to me, I would have just welded up a basic box stove at work, but the wife wanted something that had a little more style to it, so there we have it.

 

[bholler]

I see no need to turn this into a pissing match regarding a stove you do not have any first hand knowledge about,

But I do have allot of first hand knowledge of that model stove that is the problem.

or apparently metallurgy.the last few statements make very little sense,

What doesn't make sense? You have a stove that is cast out of very inconsistent material so the expansion characteristics can be very different even withing each panel. You now have it all brazed together which means instead of each panel being able to move a little differently the whole stove needs to move as one which does not happen.

Just trying to share a post about modifications that can be done to a stove, to make it quite the functional little unit, for a cheap price. Is it for everyone? no, but if you happen to have the proper resources at hand, it doesn't take much to get a stove that performs very well, at a fraction of the cost of a "designer" stove.

And that is where I have a problem. If you choose to do this in your own home that is fine but when you come on here and claim you can make this stove a safe reliable heater by the modifications you have done you are giving people info that could be very dangerous. Why do you think that no stove company out there has ever welded or brazed a cast stove together?

If it was up to me, I would have just welded up a basic box stove at work, but the wife wanted something that had a little more style to it, so there we have it.

And as long as you used good materials and are a good welder which it sounds like you probably are that would have been much safer.


I am not trying to beat you up about this at all but I come on here to try to make sure people get advice that will make their heating systems and homes safer. And it bothers me when I see advice given that is contrary to that. And while I have seen a good number of these stove with catastrophic failures I have also seem some that have been in service for years. So your stove may be one that just happen to be cast well. But I am not willing to make that bet on my families lives or the lives of my customers.

 

[bcrewcaptain]

But I do have allot of first hand knowledge of that model stove that is the problem.


What doesn't make sense? You have a stove that is cast out of very inconsistent material so the expansion characteristics can be very different even withing each panel. You now have it all brazed together which means instead of each panel being able to move a little differently the whole stove needs to move as one which does not happen.


And that is where I have a problem. If you choose to do this in your own home that is fine but when you come on here and claim you can make this stove a safe reliable heater by the modifications you have done you are giving people info that could be very dangerous. Why do you think that no stove company out there has ever welded or brazed a cast stove together?


And as long as you used good materials and are a good welder which it sounds like you probably are that would have been much safer.


I am not trying to beat you up about this at all but I come on here to try to make sure people get advice that will make their heating systems and homes safer. And it bothers me when I see advice given that is contrary to that. And while I have seen a good number of these stove with catastrophic failures I have also seem some that have been in service for years. So your stove may be one that just happen to be cast well. But I am not willing to make that bet on my families lives or the lives of my customers.

While there are a lot of "issues" regarding this stove, obviously due to the design to start with, I expect the majority of these will fall in the category of users with little or no experience, or not paying attention.

I am sure even mine with the mods "could"have issues, anything is possible, no matter what stove it is, not like anyone xrays them before selling.
I don't push mine by any means, rarely will I see stovetop temps over 500, I just don't need to. Never have I had discoloring and such as I have seen on many stoves.
Hell, the insert I was testing had a baffle that was split and warped nearly 2", and that was 3/8 plate.
THAT is a great example of how failures occur. Anything can happen, minimizing risk is key.

 

[bholler]

While there are a lot of "issues" regarding this stove, obviously due to the design to start with, I expect the majority of these will fall in the category of users with little or no experience, or not paying attention.

Yes That is some of it for sure but the fact is that the cast panels are very thin and the casting quality is very inconsistent. This can lead to cracking of those panels. And the fact that you made it so the panels cant move independently makes that risk even higher. It really is not the design that is the problem they just copied the design from some very old designs that worked well when they were made by a company that cared about quality. The problem is the complete lack of quality control in every steep of the process.

 

[webby3650]

I've seen a few dozen of these stoves, we take one or two out each year I'd say. I'm yet to see one that didn't have what I would call catastrophic failure. Huge cracks on both sides, legs fractured and falling off. Pretty scary to me.
I'm glad you were able to make yours a success. I just can't see the point in spending the time and resources on it, not to mention the safety risk when Craigslist is overloaded with well performing stoves for $500.

 

[begreen]

Points made. It's been said before so closing thread. Be safe.