Burner screw - zinc plated ok?

[wagdog]

Need some help here.

Adding the damper to my NC32. Saw I’d dropped a bunch of creasote onto the baffle boards, decided to take em out, which meant unscrewing two burner tubes. That went bad. Broke a baffle (got some on the way and will stove cement this one back together temporarily). Also broke a screw, which I thankfully got out.

I have zinc plated screws I use for stove pipe on hand. Are these ok to use to hold the burner? Should I go to the hardware store and get stainless?

 

[bholler]

Need some help here.

Adding the damper to my NC32. Saw I’d dropped a bunch of creasote onto the baffle boards, decided to take em out, which meant unscrewing two burner tubes. That went bad. Broke a baffle (got some on the way and will stove cement this one back together temporarily). Also broke a screw, which I thankfully got out.

I have zinc plated screws I use for stove pipe on hand. Are these ok to use to hold the burner? Should I go to the hardware store and get stainless?

Drill and tap stainless bolts in. If you don't you will be going through the same process over and over. It really is a shortcoming of the design

 

[wagdog]

Drill and tap stainless bolts in. If you don't you will be going through the same process over and over. It really is a shortcoming of the design

I will do so after the heating season. I just need to get back in action tonight.

I shoulda just left the mess from the damper install, but I figured I’d just remove the baffles, zip it back up and be done.

No such luck.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

zinc is like grade 3 or something like that.. its the lowest grade bolt there is. I'd go stainless steel bolts and nuts they are grade 5 I believe . If you use the ZP they will fail they will not hold up to the stress and heat

 

[bholler]

zinc is like grade 3 or something like that.. its the lowest grade bolt there is. I'd go stainless steel bolts and nuts they are grade 5 I believe . If you use the ZP they will fail they will not hold up to the stress and heat

Yes that is all Englander uses and they break almost every time.

 

[Highbeam]

I've removed the tubes several times for baffle board removal and the first time, as usual, was a little tense but they all came out. Remember the purpose of those screws. They don't need to be tight at all. Just in there well enough that the dang tube doesn't fall out. I only go finger tight. Reuse the original screw dipped in copper antizeize. They come out just fine every year. Note that you don't need to take out all of the tubes for baffle board removal.

The door glass brackets use a bunch of the same screws but what are you going to do? Preemptively remove every screw and replace it just in case? I don't have a problem with them rusting but like any fastener they can seize up a little just until you crack them loose. The thread is really coarse and not deep so I've had good luck.

 

[wagdog]

Well, the good news is I got the damper installed.

 

[wagdog]

And the manual says you only need to remove one burner tube to get the baffle boards out - that didn’t work out for me and I ended up with a broken baffle.

That’s the part I’m po’ed about. At least I have the replacement material on order. Supposed to warm up a little next week, so I swap in the new parts and a stainless screw.

 

[brenndatomu]

That zinc screw will work for now...I'd replace it with SS later on though...and coat them with hi temp anti seize (copper, or even better, nickel) and they'll come out no problem...

 

[bholler]

And replace them with actual bolts going into tapped holes not just sheet metal screws

 

[brenndatomu]

And replace them with actual bolts going into tapped holes not just sheet metal screws

What's the advantage there?...considering that they just pin the secondary air tubes from turning/sliding out...and they don't even need to be that tight...

 

[wagdog]

And replace them with actual bolts going into tapped holes not just sheet metal screws

Will do. As a matter of fact, I just picked up a tap/die set the other week.

 

[Hogwildz]

Bolts don't shear off as easy as those s.s. screws do.

 

[Highbeam]

Will do. As a matter of fact, I just picked up a tap/die set the other week.

You’ll be tapping threads into that sheet metal secondary manifold. I would save that extreme solution for the very small chance that the original screw system fails.

On the nc30 you can easily get the boards out by removing just one tube. You need to sort of arrange things right though. Don’t force or flex the boards.

 

[brenndatomu]

You’ll be tapping threads into that sheet metal secondary manifold. I would save that extreme solution for the very small chance that the original screw system fails.

Exactly. Unless it strips coming apart, no reason to be making it that tight!

 

[bholler]

He already had them break just as I usually do when pulling out those screws. It really isn't a big deal it only takes like 5 mins. I wouldn't call it an extreme solution. I call it a pretty simple one to avoid further frustration.

 

[Highbeam]

He already had them break just as I usually do when pulling out those screws. It really isn't a big deal it only takes like 5 mins. I wouldn't call it an extreme solution. I call it a pretty simple one to avoid further frustration.

His problem is a broken self tapping screw that he got out. You know the factory zipped these in super tight with a high speed drill and might have even partially broke the screw on install.

The obvious solution is to use a new screw and put it back together finger tight if the hole is still reasonably capable of holding it. I don’t understand why anyone would want to keep inventing things to fix. He’s already broken baffle boards and now is talking about unnecessary drilling and tapping on his brand new stove?

Fix it till it breaks!

 

[bholler]

His problem is a broken self tapping screw that he got out. You know the factory zipped these in super tight with a high speed drill and might have even partially broke the screw on install.

The obvious solution is to use a new screw and put it back together finger tight if the hole is still reasonably capable of holding it. I don’t understand why anyone would want to keep inventing things to fix. He’s already broken baffle boards and now is talking about unnecessary drilling and tapping on his brand new stove?

Fix it till it breaks!

It did break so why not fix it so it doesn't break again? You just drill the hole out that is already there slightly run a tap through it and put a bolt in like it should have been in the first place. I have never broken a bolt in a quad or napoleon but break those screws all the time.

 

[brenndatomu]

so why not fix it so it doesn't break again?

Some high temp anti seize and don't tighten the poo outta it, it won't break again...

 

[bholler]

Some high temp anti seize and don't tighten the poo outta it, it won't break again...

Not in my experience

 

[brenndatomu]

Not in my experience

With HT AS on it?
That's the key...I have twisted 5/16" SS bolts off (not the same application, but still in the firebox) easily with no AS...but with HT AS I can take them back off by hand (I hand tighten too...they are on firebrick retainers) after a full burn season...

 

[bholler]

With HT AS on it?
That's the key...I have twisted 5/16" SS bolts off (not the same application, but still in the firebox) easily with no AS...but with HT AS I can take them back off by hand (I hand tighten too...they are on firebrick retainers) after a full burn season...

Yes ones I had put back in the previous year with anti seize and not overly tight. After doing that a few times I now just replace them all with bolts. It is a whole lot faster and easier to simply enlarge an empty hole slightly than to wait until a screw is broken off in there and you have to drill the screw out.

 

[wagdog]

His problem is a broken self tapping screw that he got out. You know the factory zipped these in super tight with a high speed drill and might have even partially broke the screw on install.

The obvious solution is to use a new screw and put it back together finger tight if the hole is still reasonably capable of holding it. I don’t understand why anyone would want to keep inventing things to fix. He’s already broken baffle boards and now is talking about unnecessary drilling and tapping on his brand new stove?

Fix it till it breaks!

Lol - I hear ya. I don't think fixing the threads that hold on two of the burners that have to come out to clean out the stove is a bad idea though. I do wish I hadn't broke that baffle, but in my defense, I really did want to get the creosote that had fallen into the top of the stove out. I do wish I'd have taken out two of the burner pipes before attempting it instead of just one like the manual specified.

Anyway, it's back together, it's running, and after this season, I will be drilling and tapping those holes to ease future maintenance.