Buying a Enviro Kodiak 1700 insert this weekend.

[shortys7777]

I have been doing a bunch of research and I am ready to buy the stove. I found one used somewhat near me. The stove was purchased in 2017 and used one season. The owner says 5 cords were burned. What is a reasonable price for one? He has it listed for $1,900 without the liner. My house is 1500 sq ft ranch and from multiple people here they said get the biggest stove that can fit in your fire place. Since my fireplace tapers in the Enviro models are what I had planned on anyways. I was going to buy brand new if need be. I had a question about clearances. I am fine for everything except this section. C - bottom to max. ¾” combustible facing 19½. I have inserted a picture of my set up. The stove is 19 3/4 high. to the bottom trim under the mantle I come in at 18 3/4. That white trim piece is 1 5/8 off of the bricks. Should I be concerned? I will be doing the install with my father. Thanks in advance.

 

[begreen]

What is new price in your area? Out here, close by the mfg. I think it's about $2200 for the insert. Why are they selling a 1 yr old insert? Any signs of abuse or overfiring?

 

[shortys7777]

The owner wants to switch over to a coal furnace so he says. These are some photos of the actual stove. He did say the door may need a new gasket even though it was sealing properly late spring when he used it. I need to call and see what they retail for here. Sent a couple emails earlier today.

 

[begreen]

That door gasket does look ratty which is surprising after just one season. It should be replaced with an OEM gasket from Enviro. Maybe offer 1700.

 

[weatherguy]

Offer $1500, I doubt they get more than that, anything above that I'd rather by new. That way you know it's in great shape and have a warranty.

 

[shortys7777]

I was going to start at 1500. Just not sure if I should drive the hour 45 minutes and do that in person or mention it over the internet. He did tell me one else has responded to the ad yet and it's been listed for 2 weeks.

 

[begreen]

Considering the long drive and the long time on the market $1500 may work. He can only say no.

 

[shortys7777]

Called a few places and they retail at 2500 around here near. I assume he will take less than asking since its been posted this long with no interest. so still seems like a good deal. He was very knowledgeable but I'm going to ask him to send a few more pictures. Where are areas to look for if there was any over burning going on?

 

[begreen]

From the pictures I don't see signs of overfiring. If it had been the paint would have started to grey and in some cases the baffle or tubes start to sag. The bricks look good too.

 

[shortys7777]

I bought the stove. The next step is getting an insulated liner. I have a few questions. The 316Ti liner seems like the most popular. Is it, or what should I be looking at? I see some are pre insulated and some you need to wrap yourself. Which is better? I see that rockford chimney supply has a sale currently on the kits. Do I need a kit? I know I need a top plate and I'll need to grind the damper down on the fireplace. I am going to make a block off plate with some metal and automotive gasket seal that is rated over 800 degrees which should be fine. I know I don't need the t-cap or rain cap as my current chimney has a fairly new cap on it. The chimney is already clay lined. Are certain companies more reputable than others? Also should I and what should I use to fill the voided areas of the fireplace? I don't need to fill the void all the way down the chimney do I if the liner is already insulated? I called one place and they quoted me $600 for everything I need with 20ft pipe. Thanks for all the help I want to get it asap and do the install with my dad in a couple weeks.

 

[bholler]

I bought the stove. The next step is getting an insulated liner. I have a few questions. The 316Ti liner seems like the most popular. Is it, or what should I be looking at? I see some are pre insulated and some you need to wrap yourself. Which is better? I see that rockford chimney supply has a sale currently on the kits. Do I need a kit? I know I need a top plate and I'll need to grind the damper down on the fireplace. I am going to make a block off plate with some metal and automotive gasket seal that is rated over 800 degrees which should be fine. I know I don't need the t-cap or rain cap as my current chimney has a fairly new cap on it. The chimney is already clay lined. Are certain companies more reputable than others? Also should I and what should I use to fill the voided areas of the fireplace? I don't need to fill the void all the way down the chimney do I if the liner is already insulated? I called one place and they quoted me $600 for everything I need with 20ft pipe. Thanks for all the help I want to get it asap and do the install with my dad in a couple weeks.

You dont need 316 304 is fine for wood only. But many suppliers only make lightwall in 316 if that is what you are going with. It will work fine bit I would recomend 304 midweight or heavy wall liner. It is smooth wall and much thicker metal. Absolutly avoid the 2ply smoothwall crap.

As far as insulation goes either wrap or preinsulated is fine. Preinsulated is heavier and less flexible but much harder to screw up.

I would get an insert kit it will probably be cheaper and your current cap may not work with the liner. You may need to get an elbow for the bottom to make things line up right.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations, it's a fine heater and good looking stove. There is no need to insulate the full chimney clay liner with an insulated SS liner in it. You can use Roxul mineral wool or kaowool ceramic insulation above the blockoff plate and behind and on the sides of the insert.

 

[shortys7777]

Begreen, even with the exterior chimney? I just talked to a popular place he also said it was a waste of money on a clay lined chimney unless the house was from the early 1900s. A local place sells the entire kit for $500 but it is 316. I have not found to many places within driving distance or online that sell the 304 un insulated. I will call around to a few more tomorrow. Other than thickness what is the difference? One is more rigid? Thanks again guy. Going to install this next weekend.

 

[bholler]

Begreen, even with the exterior chimney? I just talked to a popular place he also said it was a waste of money on a clay lined chimney unless the house was from the early 1900s. A local place sells the entire kit for $500 but it is 316. I have not found to many places within driving distance or online that sell the 304 un insulated. I will call around to a few more tomorrow. Other than thickness what is the difference? One is more rigid? Thanks again guy. Going to install this next weekend.

316 is fine for wood. It is just a more expensive alloy and its higher resistance to corrosion is not needed for wood. 304 is cheaper so for wood only that is what we use.

As far as insulation goes a clay liner and the age of the house have absolutely no bearing on the need for insulation. Interior vs exterior chimney does. From a code compliance and safety standpoint insulation in an interior chimney is more important because on an exterior chimney more heat will be dissipated through the cooler exterior walls. That is why by code you need 2" of clearance from the outside of the masonry structure to any combustible materials on an interior chimney but only 1" for an external one. From a performance standpoint insulation is more important for exactly the same reasons. More heat is lost which can cause problems with draft and creosote buildup.

The differences between the types of liners are thickness but also type of construction. Standard lightwall liners are corregated with a crimped seam. This causes turbulence in the liner slowing draft and increasing buildup. Midweight and heavy wall are made with a continuous interlocked seam which gives a much smoother interior. The extra thickness simply means a longer service life. And because of the construction mid and heavywall liners are actually a little more flexible. But like i said before lightwall will work fine i just prefer the thicker liners especially for full time burners.

 

[begreen]

Yes, you are getting seat of the pants advice. An insulated liner is particularly beneficial in this case. An exterior chimney will be colder and more prone to draft issues, heat loss and creosote accumulation. The insulated liner will improve performance and safety. Listen to bholler, he does this for a living.

 

[shortys7777]

Thank you guys. I will call around some more places. Begreen did you say it was not needed all the way up because you assumed it was an interior chimney?

 

[bholler]

Thank you guys. I will call around some more places. Begreen did you say it was not needed all the way up because you assumed it was an interior chimney?

What he said was that filling the whole void with insulation was not nessecary. Not that properly insulating the whole liner wasnt.

 

[shortys7777]

Ok thank you. That's what I assumed from all the research on here. Wonder how many installers are not using insulated liners around here as most of my quotes were un insulated. How is Rockford chimney supply? Although I didn't see 304 on their site.

 

[bholler]

Ok thank you. That's what I assumed from all the research on here. Wonder how many installers are not using insulated liners around here as most of my quotes were un insulated. How is Rockford chimney supply? Although I didn't see 304 on their site.

Sadly many installers dont bother with code and just use bare liners. Really any reputable retailers liner will be fine.

 

[begreen]

Thank you guys. I will call around some more places. Begreen did you say it was not needed all the way up because you assumed it was an interior chimney?

You don't need to pack the chimney with Roxul because you already will have an insulation wrapped or pre-insulated, stainless liner in the chimney. Packing a bit above the block-off plate for a foot or two will help keep more of the insert's heat around it.

 

[shortys7777]

I am ordering the liner today. I measured and from the top of the stove to the top of my chimney it is 13ft. I have read 15ft or more is best for draft. Should I extend the chimney 2 feet or can I give it a go with the 13ft height? The roof is very easy for me to access if I need to add on later. Even if it was the middle of the winter. How difficult is it to add if I have already cut the liner at the 13ft height? Obviously I will save the piece but I assume there is an adapter and I will need to put a rigid liner extending the 2 or 3 ft higher for that 15+ height.

 

[begreen]

15' is desirable. It's what the insert was tested with. You could try the insert with 13' and see how it performs. If draft is ok when outdoor temps are 50º or below and secondary combustion is good, then it could be ok. Draft will improve as it gets colder outside. If not, an extension to the chimney will be needed. 2ft of additional flue can make a nice difference if draft is marginal.

PS: Insulating the liner will help here with a shorter flue.

 

[shortys7777]

I have the insert almost completely installed. Having trouble getting the entire adapter into the stove. Is there any issue with leaving it as is and screwing it in? The rigid part of the adapter is below the screw holes. Here's a picture of it.

 

[begreen]

Could be fine. How far in is it past the screw hole?

 

[shortys7777]

Around 2 inches. From the inside of the stove it looks as if another half in could go down but I can't get it in for the life of me. Also should I wrap the entire area with insulation after installing the screws? The plan was to put safe and sound insulation on the sides, back, and top a couple feet up.