Can an older wood stove be made safer for indoor air quality?

[FromHollywood]

Does anyone know of ways to make an older wood stove safer in terms of the indoor air quality? I'm saving to buy a new stove next summer but in the meantime, I'm stuck with this old one.

Outside of cleaning, I was thinking of getting some door gaskets and maybe some type of in-line fan that would get more of the exhaust up the chimney instead of inside the house (I don't see smoke inside but I can sometimes smell it). I suppose an in-line fan would sacrifice efficiency but I'm ok with that if it also makes the indoor air better. Maybe an in-line filter of some sort to trap the exhaust particulates?

I don't know the brand of this stove (there is no manufacturer's label). It vents out the back, turns 90 degrees and goes into a 6" chimney liner that extends several feet above the top of the chimney (2-story house). It looks like a good installation. Until I can get a new stove, I'd like to do whatever I can to improve the indoor air quality while I'm using this older one. Next year at this time, I hope to have a new EPA stove that will help both indoor and outdoor air quality.

Thanks for any ideas you could share.

 

[cmonSTART]

Wow. I've never seen one quite like that. Door gaskets are a good idea. As for smoke spillage into the room, it's usually caused by draft or pressure problems. An Exhausto fan is only a band-aid and not a cure. Before resorting to that check things like the flue condition (clean and free of leaks), try to crack a nearby window and see if that helps, make sure dryers and cook hoods are off.

What size is the flue collar that comes out the back of the stove? 6 inch?

 

[fossil]

You have essentially no hearth protection in front of the stove. The combustible flooring there is in jeopardy. If you occasionally smell smoke, it's likely from less than ideal draft or improper stove operation. Even an old stove should only ever have airflow in one direction...into the combustion air intake(s), through the firebox, and out the stovepipe/chimney to daylight. Having the entire flue structure cleaned & inspected, and replacing gaskets on the stove should be done as a matter of course...it's routine maintenance. Rick

 

[FromHollywood]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, the diameter of the stove exhaust pipe is 6". I believe the entire length of chimney pipe is also 6".

I'm a little confused as I thought any older stove was guaranteed to put more bad stuff into the indoor air and the new EPA approved stoves do not. Is that not the case?

It sounds like you guys are saying that if my draft and pressure and stove operation is good, then I shouldn't have any bad stuff coming into the indoor air? Is that right?

If that's the case, then I'd prefer just doing some maintenance on this stove and keeping it. Or, would a new EPA stove definitely help the indoor air quality?

 

[fossil]

The EPA certification requirements for new solid fuel-burning appliances are all about outside air quality...the emissions being discharged into the atmosphere out the chimney. Nothing to do with the quality of the air inside your living space. Stoves have always been built to ensure that, provided the stovepipe/chimney is properly installed and the system is maintained adequately and properly operated, the inside air quality will not be degraded by the use of the appliance. If you're going to continue to use that old smoke dragon, then do yourself a big favor and get some adequate hearth protection on the floor out in front of it. Rick

 

[woodgeek]

If you only smell it sometimes--could it be a reload issue? I found that if I crack the door for a half minute before swinging it open, I get a lot less spillage. The idea is that you are sending a zot of hot air up the chimney to give the draft a boost before opening.

 

[precaud]

I believe that is an Orley, made in Oregon. They still make stoves but don't have a website and still do not make any units which meet EPA standards. Living in the past.

 

[littlesmokey]

Stove sure looks like an Orley to me, I agree with precaud. Based on the pictures I think the flue is improperly installed. Looks like the stack is inserted "inside" the stove ring. Can't seal it that way. You need an adapter and screws and cement/sealer to close the space.

Although these are not EPA stoves they are very efficient and can burn well. As far as the front hearth, I wouldn't be too concerned as the stoves open from the ends. Seems like an interesting heat deflector behind the stove in front of the firebox. Some of their stoves had door gaskets, not all, but most, replace and make sure the door snugs tightly. Also check the seal around the "window". air frequently leaks around the glass.

Several years ago friends had one up on the Puget Sound. Often as they learned to use it the front door was wide open from over heating the house. Use well dried wood and you should be satisfied for years. These were ahead of their time and were well engineered. Except for the odd appearance, I'd be happy to have one in my home, but would readily use one in my shop.

 

[FromHollywood]

Good to hear that older stoves, by nature, don't pollute the indoor air. The EPA website got me scared.

Here are a few more photos of this stove.

LittleSmokey---you thought the flue was improperly installed. Can you tell more from these other photos?

I'd like to clean the unit myself and do it regularly. Could I open the ash door outside and stick the brush up through the little plate on the fireplace floor and then up into the flexible pipe? The cap is five feet above the chimney so can't reach it from the roof.

What I'd really like to do is get rid of the large black screen----it covers what is a beautiful fireplace. I suppose its there because of the wood mantel but isn't there an alternative to that ugly screen?

What I smell may not be smoke---it's more of an sharp, unpleasant, lingering odor when using the stove. Maybe I should start with the cleaning and see if that improves things.

I was thinking of replacing the hearth with some old brick so I can extend it into the room. That should protect the floor better.

Thanks so much for all the helpful information everyone. This forum is a great resource.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Just a hunch, but I bet the smell is coming from inside your brick chimney when the chimney liner gets hot. Do you have a block off plate up under there?
Take a wiff inside your chimney, see if that is where the smell is coming from.

 

[savageactor7]

Is that stove pipe going down? That could be the reason you smell smoke, your gonna need help...

 

[greythorn3]

Is that stove pipe going down? That could be the reason you smell smoke, your gonna need help...

GOOD eye.. man im suprized at some of these setups i have seen around on here.. amazing what u can get away with and still be alive!

 

[precaud]

Stove sure looks like an Orley to me, I agree with precaud...
Although these are not EPA stoves they are very efficient and can burn well...
These were ahead of their time and were well engineered...

I don't know if I'd go that far. They certainly were intriguing - I remember looking at them at a local dealer 30 years ago. They burn hot (i.e. hard to control) and were relatively defect-free doing it, due to the inherent stability of the cylindrical shape. As you can see from the pics posted, their radiation pattern poses a problem for normal installations, dumping more heat rearwards than frontwards.

Savage is right - that downward sloping pipe needs to go. I wouldn't go to sleep with this system burning.

 

[woodgeek]

FH,

Do you know how high the venting goes up the chimney? 2', 6' to the top?

When I ran a slammer, the draft was unstable and I got smoke spillage all the time.

Edit: just saw 6" liner goes to the top--but when was it last cleaned?

 

[FromHollywood]

Thanks for noticing the downward slope on the back of the stove. I'll try and fix that so the slope goes upward a bit instead. There is no block off plate.

The way this unit was installed doesn't look like it will be easy to do cleanings. I'm going to have to go from the bottom-up as I can't reach the cap while on the roof. It sure would be nice if they had put some type of cleanout on the face of the brick chimney outside. Guess I'll have to do this from inside the house.

If I remove that cap on the bottom of the liner (inside the fireplace), won't a ton of debris fall into the firebox and inside the living room? I can't imagine a brush would really get through those tight turns in the flex line and then be able to go 25' up all the way to the cap.

In the attached photo, it looks like there was some patchwork on the outside brick chimney about seven feet up from the ground level----I'm guessing the installers opened the chimney there to join two sections of vent pipe? Maybe I could reopen that section and put a cleanout?

 

[BrotherBart]

Smoke in the room is probably coming from the chimney not being connected to the back of the stove. :lol:

<ducking>

 

[FromHollywood]

I took it apart just to take the photos so I could post them here.

 

[madrone]

Is a flex liner supposed to be flattened through the damper like that?

 

[firefighterjake]

As mentioned the newer EPA stoves deal with outdoor air quality . . . any woodstove that is properly maintained and not in a broken state of being with a properly drafting chimney should not effect the indoor air quality.

However, as also mentioned, there are a few things you really should do . . . 1) clean and check the chimney and flue to stove connections, 2) replace any gaskets if needed, 3) fix the flue/chimney connection as smoke has a more difficult time flowing down and 4) build or put a listed floor protection in front of the stove.

Numbers 1-3 may fix the smoke spillage issues . . . Number 4 is a safety issue . . . while the stove may not open in the front floor protection is still needed and I would guess that it would be easy enough for a hot coal or ember to spill out the side, hit the hearth and bounce forward . . . just as easy as that ember or coal bouncing backwards or to the side where there is protection.

 

[littlesmokey]

Didn't mean to imply that a hearth extension would not be needed in "front" of the stove, but rather that the extension should be the same as at the "side" of the door. May save a few inches. Also, the fittings on the first photo don't seem to be tight. The screw and glue (HT caulk) previously mentioned by others should remedy this issue. As noted before the smokey smell may be caused by the downward slope of the pipe leaving the stove. Add the lack of a block-off plate and you have the culprit in my opinion. I think the shroud could be made more attractive, or replaced by another heat deflector, but you do need to provide adequate protection. Relocating the stove a little further from the combustible mantle may do the trick.

Sounds like a little pulling and repair work may do the trick. These are good stoves and could serve for years with proper care and burning practices. I like the design and especially the uniqueness. Orley made some truly ugly stoves, pictures are on the Net. Saw one for sale in Colorado last year that would have satisfied Liberace in his days. Think they were enhancing their senses when the build that one. He-He-He.

Basically, don't feel hurried or pressured to replace the stove. They did meet the Oregon standards that were the basis for the EPA mandates. Note: Standards and Mandates.......... :-S

 

[gzecc]

Not an expert, but how many inches from the fireplace mantle and surround is the stove?

 

[FromHollywood]

When hooked up as usual, the horizontal vent pipe is 12" below the wood facing (just above the brick and below the mantel) and 20" below the mantel shelf. The rear edge of the stove body is about 10" diagonally from the vertical pieces of wood (see earlier photos),

If I move the stove further out into the room and build a bigger base, I can get more than that 10" but I can't do anything about the 12" and 20" dimensions from the vent pipe to the mantel. The stove would obviously be further away from the wood but the vent pipe won't.

Does it sound like I could get rid of that ugly black surround given those dimensions?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[littlesmokey]

Check with the local Zoning Board and your insurance company. You will need to get a printed copy of the installation requirements for them. Your fire box is rather small and based on relooking at the pics, you weren't really protected by the "black shroud". If you build your hearth out and check below the existing one to make sure you are protected from wscorching the framing below, you might be able to gain some wiggle room by shortening the pedestal???? Maybe?????

While you have it out, give it a re-paint in your favorite high temp color.... I really like Red and Deep Green.

For a lot less than a new stove you can really spruce one of these up. Friends in Washington really tricked the paint out on theirs to the point he didn't want to burn his hotrod-baby.

With the full lined chimney already there, add a block-off plate, clean the brick re-do the hearth, cut the pedestal and add your paint you should be set to go.