Can I build a shroud to reduce clearances?

[PAcountryboy]

I thought I read somewhere that you could build a shroud, or wall protector out of metal to reduce your clearances to a combustible wall. Is this true, and does anyone know the rules?

Take this situation for example: Corner clearances on a stove are 16" to a combustible wall, and 9" to non-combustible wall. Can I make a shroud to put in the corner and place it between the stove and a combustile wall and use the 9" clearance? If so, how close to the stove or wall should the shroud be? Do I have to measure the 9" from the shroud, or can I still measure the 9" to the wall, with the shroud being somewhere in-between? Does it have to extend higher than the stove itself (assuming I have proper clearances for my pipe without the shroud)? How thick does the metal have to be?


Hope this all makes sense. I want to make a removable shroud that will only be behind the stove during the winter months when I'm using it, and remove it for the summer.

Oh, and one other question. Are there clearance requirements to glass windows that would exceed a stove's normal requirements?


Thanks!

 

[fossil]

Who's to say someone's not going to fire up the stove without the removeable shroud in place? Rick

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

 

[pelletizer]

Your idea sounds good but what would the building inspector say and what if there was a fire how would you explain it to the insurance company?
Thx.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are referring to an NFPA wall shield which is a permanent structure. Here's a good article on wall shields. In addition to the good article links posted above, there are also lots of threads on wall shield options:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/18505/

and here is an document from USG on how to build one out of durock cement board:
(broken link removed to http://tinyurl.com/nmmt3)

 

[Wet1]

So can I correctly sum this up by saying you can reduce the clearances stated by the stove manufacture ONLY IF they say the use of a NFPA wall shield can be used to reduce their minimum clearances... If they do not say so, even when using a proper NFPA shield, you must still stick to the manufacturer's minimum distances and the distance cannot be reduced with the use of the shield. Is this correct?

If I do have this correct (and I may not), does anyone know Harman's stance on this?

 

[begreen]

My understanding is if the manufacturer has posted tested NFPA wall shield clearances in the manual, they are the final guidance. If not, then NFPA 211 clearance reductions for the wall shield should be the guiding factor. This will need to be approved by the inspector, preferably before the stove goes in.

Harman's stance is stated in their manuals:

Clearance distances may only be reduced by
using methods approved by either the CAN/CSA B365 standard
(Canada) or NFPA 211 (U.S.) Contact your building
authority for information if you are interested in reducing
clearance distances other than those presented here

 

[Wet1]

Thanks BG!

 

[PAcountryboy]

Who's to say someone's not going to fire up the stove without the removeable shroud in place? Rick

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

Thanks for the links!


To answer your question (not trying to be a jerk, so please don't take it that way!)........since it's my house, and I'll be the person using the the stove with the shield behind it.........then I would have to say that there is zero chance of someone starting a fire in my stove, in my house, without the shroud behind it, and without my knowledge.



Also, when I say "removable", I don't mean something that is just standing there and can fall over, or be moved around. To me anything that is screwed to a wall, or bolted to the floor, is removable. In my mind, "permanent" would be a brick or stone hearth.

You would have to see where my stove is going to be placed to understand my perspective on this. The shield would be an eyesore, but worth it to be able to get the stove tucked further into the corner, and removed (unscrewed/bolted) in spring/summer, then re-installed before using the stove again.

As far as insurance in case of a fire, if I build a legal shroud, and it's installed during such an accident, how could they leave my high and dry because it wasn't installed for several months during the previous summer?? (Not that they would even know that in the first place)


I know what your saying, though, and unfortunately common sense isn't used these days, therefore the safety police will undoubtedly have some sort of problem with it.

 

[begreen]

You could put in some permanent, wood screw to machine screw anchors in the studs an use them to machine screw bolt a stove metal shield behind the stove. Use ceramic 1" spacers and follow the rules for ventilation behind the shield. (1" open at the bottom and top). If you have a sheetmetal shop cut you up a piece of 22 or 24 ga metal, also have them hem the edges for a more finished look and no sharp edges to cut yourself on.

 

[PAcountryboy]

You could put in some permanent, wood screw to machine screw anchors in the studs an use them to machine screw bolt a stove metal shield behind the stove. Use ceramic 1" spacers and follow the rules for ventilation behind the shield. (1" open at the bottom and top). If you have a sheetmetal shop cut you up a piece of 22 or 24 ga metal, also have them hem the edges for a more finished look and no sharp edges to cut yourself on.

See, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I need to see if there are any rules as to how many screws/bolts are required (if there is a rule as such). If it's a ton of screws that are required, then it will look like crap when it's removed, but if I can get away with just enough to support it, then I could probably come up with some way to hide them when the shield is removed.

The stove is going in a corner where there are windows on both walls. The shield will be an eyesore because it will have to be taller than the window sills. I can live with that in the winter, but don't want it that way all year.

 

[begreen]

You want enough anchors to keep it from flexing in the middle. There should be a continuous 1" air space behind the shield. Note, you don't want any screws directly behind the flue pipe. The window sills may be a problem, because the shield will have to be 1" beyond them. I'd have to see a picture of the installation site to understand all the issues. As far as hiding the anchors you could screw in short screws with their heads painted the wall color.

If you haven't bought the stove yet, an alternative is to get one with close clearances. We have a similar situation that constrained my stove choice. But with the Alderlea, I have no wall shield and fine clearances. Napoleon stoves are pretty good this way too.

 

[PAcountryboy]

The stove I have on order is a VC Vigilant II coal stove. I wanted the ability to burn coal as well as wood (although VC says to only burn coal, which I have concluded is just an emissions issue)

However, the P.E. T5, as you say, is a stove that I have been strongly considerting due to it's 4" corner clearance. The protected wall clearance for the VC is 9", and due to the fact that it is much more shallow (front to back) than the T5, the difference in where the front of the stove would be is only a few inches when comparing the two. But that's only if I can get it to within 9 inches. If I can't, then I'm stuck with 16" corner clearance, or to put the back flat against the wall.

Something that doesn't make any sense to me, and nobody can explain, is that the side clearance on the VC to an unprotected wall is 15.5", but yet the corner clearance is 16"????? Makes no sense. Heat coming off the entire stove has to be a lot more than coming off a corner. Every other stove has a lower corner clearance than side.


Here is a pic where the stove will be going (obviously the floor will be protected). The tape on the floor is where the front of the V.C. would be without wall protectors. It sticks way out. What's worse, is the floor would be a tripping hazard, unless I did the entire area all the way past the door........which would lead to another problem....being an old farmhouse, the floor is not very level, especially by the front door, so tiling that whole area may not be possible.

As it stands, I just barely make all the required clearances from the corners to the walls, cabinet, and out front to the fridge. It's hard to tell from the picture how much space will be wasted, but there will be 35" from the back of the stove to the corner when I make my 16" corner clearances! The chimney will be inside, and go up the corner.