Flush Insert to Sticking Out

[JRV]

Hello everyone, I guess I am new although I had an account since 2018 I forgot about and go on this site all the time unsigned in. I wanted to know if anyone has gone from a flush insert to one that’ sticks out more and found them to heat the home better?
I currently have the FPX large hybrid fire insert since 2017 and I removed the front and shroud to check out if there was a block off plate and insulation. There is only insulation up where the damper was. I ran a fire without the shroud and the front being clipped on by a metal fastener. I could really feel the heat back there. There is definitely more heat radiating out from the body in the back. I plan on installing a block off plate this spring regardless if i switch it out or not. Anyway, my priorities are for better radiant heat and capable of 2500 sq ft. I prefer the idea of a cat since I’m used to it and have tons of wood since I have a side firewood business. It’s a supplement to the heat pump and boiler when temps dips. Otherwise it does heat the home around 69-70 in the adjacent cold room. I do use small floor fans blowing into the stove room though and it absolutely helps spread it. I also have a ceiling fan in the stove room going clockwise slow.
So I guess what I am asking is has anyone switched from a flush and notice a significant difference? Which model did you get? I am looking at the PE Summit, BK P29 and I did look at the Ironstrike 300 but something about it is making me not like it. Maybe not enough good reviews although the dealers I have checked with say people love them once put in correctly.

 

[stoveliker]

Before spending like that, put the block off plate in and see if it improves enough next winter for your wishes?

Maybe I'm too cheap but that's what I'd do.

If not, one winter with better performance than now isn't too bad for knowing that you really want to spend a few grand?

 

[begreen]

Worth a try, for sure. Of the inserts, only the BK P29 is a catalytic insert. It has the longest burn time but if the stove is going to be pushed for continuous high output then there is not much advantage. The biggest non-cat is the Osburn 3500.

 

[Gearhead660]

I am in the same boat. Trying to get more from an insert. The more you can get it out of the fireplace, the more radiant heat you can get out of it. I just pulled my insert out about 5 inches. It was flush.

 

[MRD1985]

my insert sticks out a good amount. Radiant heat is pretty good but the blower does make a big difference

 

[Bobbob]

I would also check out the Buck 91. It's a large catalytic stove that can be used as an insert. I have the smaller non-cat Buck 81 that is similar in appearance and it's installed with a block off and no surround. We like the look and think it puts more out heat this way

 

[EbS-P]

Observations from someone who has a highly radiant stove in a a fireplace and an insert with no surround both interior chimneys.

More heat seems to be a common quest. To push any stove hard you need a blower and it needs to be on high to get the most heat you can. All inserts have a fan.

To me its high output operation depends less on the radiant aspect of a stove. On high you will always be using the fan. So your maximum output depends on the fan (and if you can stand the noise) and how quickly you can burn wood. Time to read up on the new EPA testing reports for each stove/insert. It’s not perfect but it’s the best we have.

So the buck 91 hard a max burn rate of 4.4 kg/hr. Wow. The low was 0.7 kg/hr. 10 k-62k btus /hour

https://buckstove.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/0567WS001N-Certification-Test-Report-Non-CBI-8.15.2019-Ed-001.pdf

I can’t find the 3500’s test report. specs state 17k-58k btus/hr seems reasonable

Princess 29 states up to 30k btus/hr for 9 hour burn on high (I think that’s low but if it could do a 6 hour burn that’s 45k btus/ hr).


Summit LE can do 3kgs/hour giving it 40k btus/ hr. (EPA repot)

If I were not interested in low output the 3500/ Englander 500i would be my choice. Take the savings of the 6” liner and the 500i to add on other heatpump.

If I wanted the best of everything it seems that the buck 91 has the widest output range. But that takes a big opening.

 

[buc74]

Our Kuma Stove at our home and a Buck at the cabin. Both had surrounds but were remove later. We like the looks better and we do use the blower much less. We have block off plates in both, likely wouldn't work as well without them.

 

[mellow]

I would first try properly insulating the fireplace before spending money on another insert, you would be surprised how much heat radiates to the back if you do not have the fireplace properly insulated.

What a proper insulated fireplace will look like:

Post in thread 'Finally got around to insulating my fireplace'

Jan 15, 2014

After seeing the gains from just the back piece of cement board I have gone ahead and done it properly on back,side,bottom,top.

Just about finished:


Finished and painted with high temp black paint in case I decide to run with no surround:




Will let you guys know how it does.

• mellow

• 

The proof insulating works:

Post in thread 'Finally got around to insulating my fireplace'

Dec 15, 2014

They say pictures are worth a million words so I thought I would let them do the talking.

Took these on Saturday, outdoor temp was in the lower 40's. Insert was cruising at around 1000 on the cat and 300 on the flue.

Overview shot of my exterior chimney:


This is a picture of my baseline temp, outside temps. 41


This is a picture of right above where the insert sits, heat rises so this was the warmest spot I could find, 43
I can live with 2 degree difference. Before insulating, this spot would have been around the same temp as the picture below around...

• mellow

• 

 

[mellow]

I had many different inserts with some protruding more than others onto the hearth, yes you will get some more heat from it extending out. BUT as I found with the BK sirocco insert, if you have the fireplace insulated you can run low and slow and STILL get plenty of heat output from an insert that does not protrude much on the hearth.

 

[begreen]

I had many different inserts with some protruding more than others onto the hearth, yes you will get some more heat from it extending out. BUT as I found with the BK sirocco insert, if you have the fireplace insulated you can run low and slow and STILL get plenty of heat output from an insert that does not protrude much on the hearth.

Does it require the blower running to convect well?

 

[mellow]

Does it require the blower running to convect well?

Absolutely, gotta get that heat out somehow, but the blower can be run at lower speeds.

 

[JRV]

Thanks all - I didn't realize people were responding as I did not get a notice. Maybe I should hang around more often. The issue with the FPX is that it basically doesnt produce heat unless the fan is on which in turn takes away burn time even on low. It can go 10 hours but after 4-5 hours the heat produced with low fan isnt doing it. It is coming out soon and will put a block off plate but I am already convinced something that sticks out will produce more heat overall for the home. The experiment I mentioned in the beginning already proved it and everyone in the house noticed it. I like the Buck 91 but I dont want a new 8" liner, I do like the Kuma that stick out more but it seems the BK does also by quite a bit and has very good burn times. I cant do the PE Summit as from what I have learned it breathes too easy. My line is like 25 ft at least. I think I will take the plunge with the Princess as a dealer by me offered quite a bit off.

 

[JRV]

I would also check out the Buck 91. It's a large catalytic stove that can be used as an insert. I have the smaller non-cat Buck 81 that is similar in appearance and it's installed with a block off and no surround. We like the look and think it puts more out heat this way

I would but I wanted to keep the 6" liner

 

[JRV]

Before spending like that, put the block off plate in and see if it improves enough next winter for your wishes?

Maybe I'm too cheap but that's what I'd do.

If not, one winter with better performance than now isn't too bad for knowing that you really want to spend a few grand?

I will be putting one in

 

[begreen]

I will be putting one in

That can make a nice difference in heat output. The blower will still be required, but it may be sufficient at low speed.

When doing this, add some insulation behind the insert too if there is room. Kaowool or Roxul mineral insulation are safe to use there.

 

[JRV]

That can make a nice difference in heat output. The blower will still be required, but it may be sufficient at low speed.

When doing this, add some insulation behind the insert too if there is room. Kaowool or Roxul mineral insulation are safe to use there.

With the current insert, it may touch the bottom half back. How thick is this stuff?

 

[begreen]

With the current insert, it may touch the bottom half back. How thick is this stuff?

It depends. Kaowool blanket can be 1/2" to 3" thick. Micore comes in boards 1/2"-1" thick. Roxul comes in boards and 3.5" thick batts.