Can I clean my chimney from my Sirocco 20 from inside the firebox?

[BC_Josh]

Can I use one of those kits I see online that attaches to a drill and clean my stove from the inside, even with a bypass flap? Or, are they ineffective?
I'm getting concerned about creosote buildup. The installer said I could have it cleaned once a year, if I did a weekly hot burn for three hours. However, I'm worried about melting the bypass gasket tabs as some have suggested in this forum. So, I've just been burning hot for 20 to 30 min's each load, which adds up to a few hours a week. Please discuss/advise. Thanks.

Amazon product ASIN B09JNHTBTB

 

[Highbeam]

Can I use one of those kits I see online that attaches to a drill and clean my stove from the inside, even with a bypass flap? Or, are they ineffective?
I'm getting concerned about creosote buildup. The installer said I could have it cleaned once a year, if I did a weekly hot burn for three hours. However, I'm worried about melting the bypass gasket tabs as some have suggested in this forum. So, I've just been burning hot for 20 to 30 min's each load, which adds up to a few hours a week. Please discuss/advise. Thanks.

Amazon product ASIN B09JNHTBTB

I have no problem getting the rotary sooteater through the bypass of my princess. After cleaning with the sooteater I then lift the flue and inspect and clean the fallen debris and this sooteater tool does a great job.

The hot burn your installer speaks of is done after you close the bypass and it’s not a bad idea at all. You can still cook the heck out of your chimney with the bypass closed. Failure to close the bypass on time can lead to permanent stove damage. A sustained hot burn once a week or so will help keep the firebox cleaner and the flue deposits a bit drier.

 

[moresnow]

I have no problem getting the rotary sooteater through the bypass of my princess. After cleaning with the sooteater I then lift the flue and inspect and clean the fallen debris and this sooteater tool does a great job.

The hot burn your installer speaks of is done after you close the bypass and it’s not a bad idea at all. You can still cook the heck out of your chimney with the bypass closed. Failure to close the bypass on time can lead to permanent stove damage. A sustained hot burn once a week or so will help keep the firebox cleaner and the flue deposits a bit drier.

Have you tried lifting the telescopic/removeable/liftable stovepipe section first to clean bottom up through a bag that collects the stovepipe/chimney residue instead of letting it enter the stove in the first place? Curious.
Sooteater or standard fiberglass brush setup work fine with this method.

 

[Ashful]

I'll answer that, since Highbeam is 3 hours behind. It's too easy to just shove the Sooteater up thru the bypass door, to even consider playing the baggie trick. This way, all mess is contained within the stove, and easily swept or vacuumed up from there.

I don't even disconnect my pipe from the stoves, I just remove the cat, then shoot the sooteater thru the bypass door. Most sweepings land in the firebox, with some in the chamber behind the cat, where I sweep them out with my hand and then vacuum them up. Give the cat a good vacuum, new gasket, slam it back in the hole and you're ready to go for another season.

 

[Highbeam]

Have you tried lifting the telescopic/removeable/liftable stovepipe section first to clean bottom up through a bag that collects the stovepipe/chimney residue instead of letting it enter the stove in the first place? Curious.
Sooteater or standard fiberglass brush setup work fine with this method.

My install is all vertical and I want to clean the stovepipe too so what better way than all at once through the stove? You need to vacuum out the cat chamber anyway from junk that has fallen over the season. Luckily, my only stovepipe is a single slip section that slips easily so I don’t have to buy a new cat gasket ever.

 

[BC_Josh]

The hot burn your installer speaks of is done after you close the bypass and it’s not a bad idea at all. You can still cook the heck out of your chimney with the bypass closed. Failure to close the bypass on time can lead to permanent stove damage. A sustained hot burn once a week or so will help keep the firebox cleaner and the flue deposits a bit drier.

I've forgotten to close my bypass a couple times and burned it hot for about fifteen or twenty min's each time... 🥺 I hope and pray I didn't mess anything up.

I just wonder if, even with the bypass closed, aren't the gasket tabs still at risk of warping? Also, isn't the stove itself (all the plate metal) at risk of warping at super hot temp's for a long time? That concerns me. I don't have a flu thermometer, just a cat thermometer.

 

[BC_Josh]

I have no problem getting the rotary sooteater through the bypass of my princess. After cleaning with the sooteater I then lift the flue and inspect and clean the fallen debris and this sooteater tool does a great job.

How many feet up the chimney do you clean? Do you go all the way up the chimney? If so, how many feet to the top and how do you tell you're at the top?

Lastly, do you attach the sooteater to a drill?

 

[Highbeam]

I've forgotten to close my bypass a couple times and burned it hot for about fifteen or twenty min's each time... 🥺 I hope and pray I didn't mess anything up.

I just wonder if, even with the bypass closed, aren't the gasket tabs still at risk of warping? Also, isn't the stove itself (all the plate metal) at risk of warping at super hot temp's for a long time? That concerns me. I don't have a flu thermometer, just a cat thermometer.

When you close the bypass you are stopping the flow of hot exhaust past those very thin gasket retainers. I suspect the mass of the 1/2” thick bypass plate also helps keep them from melting out. You’re right to be careful with them, those things can’t be replaced without a very difficult cutting and welding job. Anybody that doubts this is welcome to try and get mine fixed.

The rest of the stove is thicker and/or cooled by exposure to fresh air.

You’re not going to get super hot temperatures during a weekly hot fire. First, the thermostat will keep the stove within safe temperatures but also you should watch both the cat meter and flue meter during this heat cycle to verify safe temperatures. I just did one this morning and flue temperature stopped rising at 850. I like to use a smallish fuel load.

 

[Highbeam]

How many feet up the chimney do you clean? Do you go all the way up the chimney? If so, how many feet to the top and how do you tell you're at the top?

Lastly, do you attach the sooteater to a drill?

I have two chimneys I clean with the sooteater. One is 12 feet tall and the other is 19’. I go all the way up and especially beat the cap, then reverse the drill and whip it the other way as I retract the system. It flings stuff out onto the roof! You know you’re at the cap when you can’t push it up any more.

I use a regular battery powered hand drill on high speed. No problems.

Be sure to remove your probe meter before starting.

 

[Ashful]

When you close the bypass you are stopping the flow of hot exhaust past those very thin gasket retainers... You’re right to be careful with them, those things can’t be replaced without a very difficult cutting and welding job. Anybody that doubts this is welcome to try and get mine fixed.

This has come up several times, you citing these bypass retainers in reference to stoves that either don't have bypass retainers at all or have the newer 1-piece design that resolved this issue. It has been stated here numerous times that the only bypass retainers that occasionally suffered from overfiring were the old 4-piece design used on a few models (yours) until several years ago.

Here's the last two references I found to these, in a quick forum search:

Blaze King Too Hot!!

Actually there are many that are quite a bit better than the nc30. The closest thing to the bk line is the Regency pro line but without a thermostat they will never run as low and slow as a bk That was my point, the BK is unique and once you use one that works for you it’s hard to imagine...

www.hearth.com

Running with the bypass open

Mod Edit: Extracted from the BK40 smoke smell thread. It branched off into a separate topic. Wonder if it would help to burn it with the bypass open for awhile? In my mind there’s no need to use the catalyst while curing paint. That allows the user to control the burn with the amount of fuel...

www.hearth.com

For the record, I've more than once ripped thru half a load wide open, with bypass open on a 30 foot chimney, and no damage. The stove gets almost glowing hot when this happens, I may have set some new records on BK30's, but no issues with bypass warpage or sealing, after these few incidents over the course of all my burning.

 

[Highbeam]

This has come up several times, you citing these bypass retainers in reference to stoves that either don't have bypass retainers at all or have the newer 1-piece design that resolved this issue. It has been stated here numerous times that the only bypass retainers that occasionally suffered from overfiring were the old 4-piece design used on a few models (yours) until several years ago.

Here's the last two references I found to these, in a quick forum search:

Blaze King Too Hot!!

Actually there are many that are quite a bit better than the nc30. The closest thing to the bk line is the Regency pro line but without a thermostat they will never run as low and slow as a bk That was my point, the BK is unique and once you use one that works for you it’s hard to imagine...

www.hearth.com

Running with the bypass open

Mod Edit: Extracted from the BK40 smoke smell thread. It branched off into a separate topic. Wonder if it would help to burn it with the bypass open for awhile? In my mind there’s no need to use the catalyst while curing paint. That allows the user to control the burn with the amount of fuel...

www.hearth.com

For the record, I've more than once ripped thru half a load wide open, with bypass open on a 30 foot chimney, and no damage. The stove gets almost glowing hot when this happens, I may have set some new records on BK30's, but no issues with bypass warpage or sealing, after these few incidents over the course of all my burning.

The stove of this thread has the thin welded in gasket retainers. Whether or not the newer one piece retainer design "resolves" this issue has yet to be seen. I hope so. Eventually I'll need to replace this BK and no other brand comes close for performance.

Hopefully BK is making some improvements but be careful where you get your information. These stoves are not perfect and one glaring imperfection that has impacted me and many others is the bypass gasket retainers melting out.

Follow the owner's manual, shut that bypass when you're supposed to. That's the best way to prevent the melt out. Just because you didn't follow the manual and your stove didn't melt doesn't make it okay to disregard the manual's directions.

 

[Ashful]

Just because you didn't follow the manual and your stove didn't melt doesn't make it okay to disregard the manual's directions.

Really, Highbeam?

Of course you shouldn't be running with the bypass open, that was already implied in my post. I'm saying that, put a hundred cords of wood thru a pair of stoves, and an error or two are going to happen along the way. Are you claiming to have never made a single error or slip of mind in the operation of any stove?

At least in my case, and even on a rather exceptionally tall chimney with monster draft, no damage was done when accidentally leaving the thing run wide open in bypass for well over an hour on a few occasions over the course of several years and several dozens of cords. I've done the same on the short chimney, and likewise, no damage. At what point would you be willing to call the bypass retainer issue "resolved", if not after that?

And no stove is perfect, like any other thing humans have designed, they're all a compromise. Choose the compromise that works best for you.

 

[Highbeam]

Really, Highbeam?

Of course you shouldn't be running with the bypass open, that was already implied in my post. I'm saying that, put a hundred cords of wood thru a pair of stoves, and an error or two are going to happen along the way. Are you claiming to have never made a single error or slip of mind in the operation of any stove?

At least in my case, and even on a rather exceptionally tall chimney with monster draft, no damage was done when accidentally leaving the thing run wide open in bypass for well over an hour on a few occasions over the course of several years and several dozens of cords. I've done the same on the short chimney, and likewise, no damage. At what point would you be willing to call the bypass retainer issue "resolved", if not after that?

And no stove is perfect, like any other thing humans have designed, they're all a compromise. Choose the compromise that works best for you.

Really. I don't understand your point. Follow the manual or permanent stove damage may result. That doesn't seem too debatable.

BK may have recently made a change on their retainers to try and reduce the likelihood of this issue. That's good news. Time will tell if the issue is lessened but in any case, follow the manual. Sheesh.

There's even an acronym the kids use, RTFM!

 

[Ashful]

Really. I don't understand your point. Follow the manual or permanent stove damage may result. That doesn't seem too debatable.

We were discussing the fact that someone had already managed to forget to close their bypass, as we all have probably done at one point or another. Here's the point:

I've forgotten to close my bypass a couple times and burned it hot for about fifteen or twenty min's each time... 🥺 I hope and pray I didn't mess anything up.

Josh, don't sweat it. I've done worse, probably several times worse, and both of my BK's are fine. Obviously try to avoid it, but no need to panic over what's been done.

 

[moresnow]

Not trying to jump into the fray here at all but my 20 series Sirocco has experienced burning a full load without the bypass ever being closed. Once.
Yaaaa. Not proud. It happened.
Cleanest BK firebox I have ever seen the next morning.
Certainly, did the stove no favors for the long term in theory but there was zero damage that we could ascertain.
Lucky?
Perhaps.

 

[Highbeam]

Okay guys, obviously I'm less than impressed with my melted bypass gasket retainers so I will be quick (perhaps too quick) to point out the risk. If they could be easily replaced it would be no big deal but they're not. I am seriously happy that BK allegedly made an attempt to reduce the risk with a new upgraded part but that doesn't eliminate the risk or help those of us with the slightly older part welded into our stoves.

In my case I did not forget to close the bypass, the retainers closest to the cat just melted out for no apparent reason and BK's advice was to bend them back close with a bottlejack. Cool, I can do that. But I continue to burn dry softwoods on low which makes for a hot cat. A few years later I now have at least one crack in the retainer. I would love to be a guinea pig or find someone with experience to replace the retainers with the new upgrade part. I can weld, but have big hands and access looks exceedingly tight. You know I would make a detailed thread about it with pictures!

There's really no alternative. Once you run a properly sized BK and appreciate the outstanding performance there is nothing else that comes close. Thermostat, wide range of output, ember protection hearth, nothing comes close.

 

[BKVP]

Hello everyone! Would all of you that have had "melted" or distorted bypass retainers send me an email or PM. I'll post the total so we can bury this "many" crap once and for all.

BKVP

I'll count Highbeam as the first, he mentions it in nearly every post so I have not forgotten.

 

[BKVP]

BTW, even one is not acceptable!

BKVP

 

[Highbeam]

BTW, even one is not acceptable!

BKVP

One! As you point out in nearly every post, this forum is but a sliver of the total so there is zero value in such a “poll”. As you say, even one is not acceptable so what about me? I would be thrilled to get this fixed and write up a happy story about how easy it can be. It’s not like you haven’t had the chance to suggest a path on this.

At least we’re not using the “common” word. That seemed to hit a nerve.😆

Thank you Chris for your participation here. I hope that in some small way the discovery of such shortcomings makes for a better BK product.

 

[Ashful]

lol... I love this forum.

 

[BC_Josh]

When I do a hot load in my BK, the cat thermo is at about half anyway.... BK endorses hot loading with ember coals in the bottom of the stove.... so, the bypass must be able to handle a certain amount of heat. I mean, otherwise, they'd want us all the wait until the needle of the cat thermo goes back to "inactive."

 

[moresnow]

When I do a hot load in my BK, the cat thermo is at about half anyway.... BK endorses hot loading with ember coals in the bottom of the stove.... so, the bypass must be able to handle a certain amount of heat. I mean, otherwise, they'd want us all the wait until the needle of the cat thermo goes back to "inactive."

What are the circumstances for reloading on such a hot active load?
Likely needing to leave the house for work/extended time? Bedtime, House temp calling for additional heat? Etc.
Curious, as that stove, at that Cat gauge indication point is likely (is in my setup) pumping out 350F to 450F STT just under the Cat gauge location.

You aren't hurting the bypass reloading at that point to my knowledge. Possibly kind of tough on the Cat imo.

 

[Tron]

so, the bypass must be able to handle a certain amount of heat.

Plus, when you do a cold start, all of the hot gases go through the bypass door until you've got the cat up to active temperature and close the bypass. Sure, burning a full load with the bypass open is not advisable, but it seems that the retainers can handle quite a lot of abuse until they fail. Nothing I worry about.

 

[Ashful]

When I do a hot load in my BK, the cat thermo is at about half anyway.... BK endorses hot loading with ember coals in the bottom of the stove.... so, the bypass must be able to handle a certain amount of heat. I mean, otherwise, they'd want us all the wait until the needle of the cat thermo goes back to "inactive."

The definition of "hot reload" can vary, I guess. I usually reload when stove is still active, but nearing inactive threshold. I don't call that a "hot reload". To me, a hot reload is when there's more than just coals in the box, and the needle is still way up into the active. Called "hot" for the way it curls my eyebrows and takes hair off my forearms.

 

[BC_Josh]

What are the circumstances for reloading on such a hot active load?
Likely needing to leave the house for work/extended time? Bedtime, House temp calling for additional heat? Etc.
Curious, as that stove, at that Cat gauge indication point is likely (is in my setup) pumping out 350F to 450F STT just under the Cat gauge location.

You aren't hurting the bypass reloading at that point to my knowledge. Possibly kind of tough on the Cat imo.

Actually, the cat thermometer is about ONE THIRD into the active zone when I reload (it is optically half way on the entire gauge, but not halfway into the active zone). I should clarify this.

The circumstances are that if I let the stove burn any longer, I wouldn't have enough embers to start another fire. I'd have to rebuild from scratch and the house would get pretty cold before all that. I have a smaller stove, a Sirocco 20, so it wouldn't hold as much ember as the larger fireboxes.