Can it get worse?

[FOBOS]

Well the chimney cleaner/stove installer came by to clean my flue. After he looked at the system: stove, inside flue etc., he said " I will not clean this because it is not installed correctly and is a fire hazard." He pointed out that the inside flue is contacting the drywall ceiling (supposed to have 2" of space between combustibles) and the pipe coming off the stove is not far enough from the wall (in real of the stove.)

Essentially, the guy said that the whole system should be reinstalled correctly with appropriate double wall pipe from stove all the way through the roof. He also said that there needs to be a firebox/support around the flue in the attic and mentioned something about a house/chimney fire as he was pulling insulation though a one inch gap where the pipe goes through the ceiling.

Are these scare tactics in order for me to hire him to fix these issues, or is he correct? Do I need to have him essentially install my wood stove all over again? We had a local contractor install it last winter and thought that he knew what he was doing, apparently he did not follow basic installation guidelines, now we are looking at paying someone else to do it right.

The issue is we really need to be using this stove (as some of you may recall from my earlier posts) and this guy is the only person in our area (central Montana) that cleans, installs wood stoves. Boy is this turning out to be a lousy Holiday season...

P.S. I stopped burning wood in the stove about a week and a half ago, due to having semi-green wood and building up creosote (now it seems like I made the right choice.)

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I think the original contractor screwed you. What did he charge you? If you still have the receipt, you might try and get your money back.

 

[FOBOS]

If I remember correctly it was about $300-400. Now this other guy is looking to charge 3 times that much with the extra material and labor. : (

 

[Jags]

:grrr:

Kudos to your sweep for possibly saving your life. If the install is truly as stated, it is dangerous. I would be calling the original installer to the carpet with the sweeps report and a copy of the stoves manual in hand.

Unacceptable.

 

[webbie]

It would be great if we could see a pic of your installation...

BUT, you can confirm some stuff for us.

Is the chimney metal?
If so, did they use HT (stainless steel double or triple wall, UL approved) chimney from at least the ceiling up through the roof to the end?

Based on your $$ figure, it would appear at first glance that the chimney was not the right stuff, being as just the materials should cost more than that.

 

[crazy_dan]

I would see what if any actions the first guy is willing to do to fix the improper install.
If You do not have the proper clearances then yes the sweep is correct and it could be a fie hazard
and way off topic but what part of central MT are you from I lived in Forsyth MT for quite a while.

 

[FOBOS]

We paid at least $600 in materials for the original install (bought the kit from ACE.) The double wall pipe starts at about two foot from the ceiling and goes all the way through the top of the roof. Below the double wall is about six feet of six inch single/black flue pipe going down to the stove.

 

[edthedawg]

Can you post some good quality photos of various parts of the system? I'd focus on the transition thru the ceiling (show it both above and below) and thru the roof (again - show the inside and outside terminations). That, and a yardstick showing the pipe clearance to the wall, for that clearance issue (which could be OK, if it's manufacturer-compliant, but you haven't noted the stove model...)

Folks here will be able to tell pretty quick if your new guys speaks the truth.

And yeah - crummy thing to find out on Xmas-Eve, but the alternatives could be a lot worse. Be safe!

 

[webbie]

We paid at least $600 in materials for the original install (bought the kit from ACE.) The double wall pipe starts at about two foot from the ceiling and goes all the way through the top of the roof. Below the double wall is about six feet of six inch single/black flue pipe going down to the stove.

Well, that sounds OK, then.......

Not to say everything is installed perfectly, but no real red flags there.
If you can tell us more - or show with pics - we can tell you more. What is the stove model? How far is the single wall pipe from the wall (inside the room)?

 

[FOBOS]

Unfortunately I do not have a method to take photos at this time. I looked at the sticker on the double wall pipe going through the ceiling and at it does state 2" space between combustible material. The pipe is touching 2/3 of the drywall ceiling with a 1 inch gap at the other end. I thought this didn't look right, guess I was right. But the fact is, I do not know that much about wood stoves (never used one when we lived back in Oregon) and now we are learning the hard (and expensive) way.

 

[webbie]

FYI, the rear stovepipe clearances can probably be fixed by a pipe heat shield.
(broken link removed)

As far as the HT pipe hitting the sheet rock....well, it depends. It usually has to be 2", but some fittings on some pipe reduce this to 1" (flat ceiling supports, etc.). He may be looking at the wrong thing - for instance the ceiling box on a sloped ceiling may be able to touch the sheet rock. It is only the pipe inside that which is held away from the rock.

It is my assumption that things are better than you think....probably a small modification needed like the shields, etc.

 

[FOBOS]

Crazy Dan, we live in the Lewistown area of central Montana. The good news right now is that it is warming up to around 9 degrees above zero (one below with windchill.)

 

[edthedawg]

FOBOS

Man you are batting zero-for-everything on this woodstove... Bad wood, bad install, and maybe not the best stove itself? Did you ever figure out the actual brand of the stove, vs. "bought it from a catalog, it's black and has glass doors"? Could you maybe find a pic of it in an online catalog and post that URL?

I'm referring to: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/31370/

We're worried about ya, dude!

 

[FOBOS]

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(fwbabl45gt3una3wquq0cfv2)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=4184768&

Hi Fellas. I appreciate all your help. This is a link to the catalog listing for the stove. It is the same exact stove except ours has legs (instead of the pedestal base) and no ash drawer. The inside black stovepipe is only 15 1/2 inches from the wall and apparently it should be 18 inches.

 

[FOBOS]

Looks like the link didnt work right so I am pasting the text in here instead and attaching the picture

CFM HOME PRODUCTS (CENTURY HEAT) FW270029 WOOD BURNING STOVE 1500 SQ FT


WOOD BURNING STOVE 1500 SQ FT
Catalog and Web only
ACE# 4184768
MFR# FW270029
Price: $599.99
Qty






Product images may differ from actual product appearance.

Google Checkout and PayPal Express are not available for this Item
Cancelled Item - DO NOT ORDER - NO LONGER AVAILABLE (NOT IN STOCK)

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Ships common carrier which handles large items. Please note the driver may assist, but is only required to get the load to the tailgate of his truck. The shipping company will not unload the merchandise to your location. The shipping company will call you to schedule a delivery date. If not on the first attempt, they will call you to schedule a delivery date for the second attempt. No Saturday Delivery. You must be available for the next five business days before placing this order. No Saturday Delivery. You must be available for the next five business days before placing this order.

"CFM HOME PRODUCTS" WOOD BURNING STOVE

* Heats up to 1500 Sq Ft
* 6" top vent
* 22" log capacity
* Overall dimensions: 29-9/16"H x 27"W x 20-7/8"D
* Top vented
* Cast iron door w/ceramic glass includes 24k gold accent trim
* Ash drawer
* EPA approved
* Please check state and local restrictions before purchasing installing or selling wood burning stoves
* Pedestal base
* Boxed

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Ships common carrier which handles large items. Please note the driver may assist, but is only required to get the load to the tailgate of his truck. The shipping company will not unload the merchandise to your location. The shipping company will call you to schedule a delivery date. If not on the first attempt, they will call you to schedule a delivery date for the second attempt. No Saturday Delivery. You must be available for the next five business days before placing this order. No Saturday Delivery. You must be available for the next five business days before placing this order.

"CFM HOME PRODUCTS" WOOD BURNING STOVE

* Heats up to 1500 Sq Ft
* 6" top vent
* 22" log capacity
* Overall dimensions: 29-9/16"H x 27"W x 20-7/8"D
* Top vented
* Cast iron door w/ceramic glass includes 24k gold accent trim
* Ash drawer
* EPA approved
* Please check state and local restrictions before purchasing installing or selling wood burning stoves
* Pedestal base
* Boxed

 

[InTheRockies]

Fobos,

I'm north of you--I'm in NW Montana, a bit west of Glacier National Park. I've got Century that heats 1500 sq. ft. and it's been doing well during this extreme arctic cold snap that we've had. If your install wasn't the best, you may not be getting the best performance out of the stove. I ended up doing my own install when I put this stove in to replace the old smoke dragon that came with the house. It was very hard to find an installer here, too. (Most in my area are affiliated with one of the several stove shops and aren't willing to install if you don't buy from those shops.) I hadn't heated with wood before moving here, either. But you learn quickly.

I would agree that the original installer should make sure the install was correct and safe. If he's not cooperative, I would contact your county officials to determine what codes might be in effect with respect to stove installations (I know, some areas here have minimal building codes). You might advise them of the situation and ask them to inspect if it seems that the install might be in violation of code. That might give you the leverage to have the original installer do the job properly for no additional money. Good luck. (I'm hoping this extreme arctic air departs Montana soon.)

 

[FOBOS]

Hello In the Rockies. Thanks for the reply. Are you anywhere near Libby? We think that area of Montana is beautiful, except for the Vermiculite issue. We have got to get this stove fixed before the next wave of arctic air enters the region. Right now it actually feels warm at 23 degrees.

 

[begreen]

Do you have a camera? If so, can take a few pictures of the problem areas? If you can include a tape or ruler that show distances, that would be great. There may be less expensive solution than a complete replacement if the original materials used are correct. If the original pipes were of the proper specification, it may me more matter of correcting clearances and shielding.

 

[myzamboni]

FOBOS, get you money back from the contractor that did a crap install and have the sweep that possibly saved your hide install it correctly. In the future if you have issues it is on the sweep's shoulders.

 

[eernest4]

If you own your own house where the stove is improperly installed here is an alternate do it yourself solution for you.

1. read your stoves inatallation manual so that you know what the proper clearances are.

2. with a tape measure recheck all clearances.

3. It may be impractable to move the stove away from the wall so with regard to the clearance you need, you may be able to install a heat shield on the wall between the stove pipe & the wall.

You mentioned that you have single wall black pipe going from the outlet of the stove to
double walled insulated pipe.

One option is to replace the single wall black pipe with double wall insulated pipe which requires less clearance & a heat shield will also allow you to have less clearance.

Another option is to remove a section of the wall behind the stove & rebuild the wall further back so that you have the required clearance. It is not that hard to do if you have any carpentery skill or experience or just read a book on how to do it.

I installed my own stove & knocked out a section of wall behind it to get the required clearance. I never bothered to replace the wall because the heat gets into the other room through the section of wall that i removed; so I killed two birds with 1 stone.

You also mentioned a section of sheet rock that the stove pipe needed 2 inch of clearance to the sheet rock & only had one inch of clearance.

I had the same problem with that on a electric heat tape that i ran along a water pipe to keep the water pipe from freezing in the unheated part of my house.

My solution was to take a sawz all and cut out the sheet rock to the proper clearance.

Took me all of 12 minutes to cut out the required clearance.

If you own the house , don't be afraid to modify it to better fit your needs.

The house is there to please you and you are not there to please your house.

I always look at a problem and figure out the easiest fix for what I need to do & sometimes it is not modifing the stove installation but rather modifing the room that the stove is in , accordingly.

Unelse you have a very fancy house worth 600,000 or better, don't br afraid to modify it.

a carpenter can always put it back to the way it was if you need to for the sales value of the house ;however, i todays economy or the economy for the nest 7 years, don't worry about selling your house unelse you are willing to accept 1/3 of what you paid for it --so go ahead
and modify to your heart's content.

Rememeber you own the house, don't let the house own you.

Also, I would look into the possibility of cleaning the chimney yourself , depending on weather your roof is real steep or flat enough (not on too much of a slant, a mild slant) so that you could go on it yourself to do the sweep.

I dont know how old you are or how steep the roof, but I am sure that you can decide.

I am only setting out various options for your consideration. Do what you like the best.

good luck

PS -- the safety clearances MUST BE ADHEARED TO AND NOT IGNORED.

It is ok to reduce the required clearances by using doulble walled stove pipe or a heat shield , but recommended clearances for these items must also be adheared to.