Can someone explain a hybrid stove to me?

[Waulie]

I'm watching the Lopi Cape Cod. Travis is no small potato. They engineer good products and the design features they've put into this big stove are nicely done. It will be interesting to see how they perform in hearth.com homes.

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That is interesting. The system looks very similiar to the PH, (as do the emissions and efficiency), but I wonder if the user experience will be the same. Someone buy one!

 

[BrowningBAR]

I'm watching the Lopi Cape Cod. Travis is no small potato. They engineer good products and the design features they've put into this big stove are nicely done. It will be interesting to see how they perform in hearth.com homes.

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It's a little surprising that the Cap Cod has the same burn time as the Liberty with about the same size firebox. It isn't doing much to disprove the theory that these hybrid stoves functions like cleaner burning non-cat stoves than they do a cat stove. Which is neither go or bad, it just is.

 

[Treacherous]

That is interesting. The system looks very similiar to the PH, (as do the emissions and efficiency), but I wonder if the user experience will be the same. Someone buy one!

Looks like efficiency is about the same but Cape Cod has an edge on emissions.

.45 gm/hr versus 1.33 gm/hr with Progress Hybrid

 

[Todd]

I'd still like to see these hybrids tweaked so you can burn them either way. Some way to switch off the secondary burn when you want a 24 hour smouldering cat burn or switch it back to non cat for those colder days. Doesn't seem that hard to do, it's all about the air.

By the way Blaze King claims they built the first hybrid back in the mid 80's, wonder why they didn't persue it?

 

[Todd]

Looks like efficiency is about the same but Cape Cod has an edge on emissions.

.45 gm/hr versus 1.33 gm/hr with Progress Hybrid

Do we know if that .45 gph number is the average over the whole series of EPA test burns or just the lowest they came up with? I know most straight cat stoves burn that clean in the low burn tests but get dirtier at higher burn rates.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I'd still like to see these hybrids tweaked so you can burn them either way. Some way to switch off the secondary burn when you want a 24 hour smouldering cat burn or switch it back to non cat for those colder days. Doesn't seem that hard to do, it's all about the air.

Agreed, but as long as it could be done on the fly since secondary burning is technically more efficient at higher temps than a cat only burn. Because the way VC has their 2-in1, you have to remove the cat to change over to a non-cat burn.

 

[Treacherous]

From this link

"The Hybrid Fyre™ flattens the emission curb which means all four
burn rates are significantly less than 1 gram per hour. As i
comparison, a typical non-cat emission curve starts dirty at lowburn, cleans up in mid-burn and emissions increase in the highburn rate creating a U-shaped emission curb. A typical catalytic
emissions curb starts lower and increases as the burn rate gets
higher. The Hybrid Fyre tm also reduces the carbon monoxide
level in all burn rates to less than 1/10th of a percent therefore
giving us a combustion efficiency over 95% (using the B 415 test
method). Overall efficiency at all burn rates is in the high 80
percentiles. As an example the overall efficiency during medium low burn is 89.6% (B 415)"

 

[fire_man]

Not sure what the stoves settings are here but for a cat burn level like it says those are alot of flames but the glass is really clean. Can the stove lower down to hardly any flames? Can anyone with a Progress Hybrid tell us if it will go lower than this video. This video is described as a PH in cat mode.

This does look like a low burn to me. Those are not secondary "jets", they are dancing flames and some firebox smoke burning. Even with the Fireview (a "True" cat stove), firebox temps would eventually climb high enough to light firebox smoke and take some of the work from the cat. I think people are mistaking thinking a black firebox (no flames) is the only way to run in cat mode.

I can't speak for BK stoves, but with my Fireview, the firebox eventually got hot enough to fill the box with rolling flames. That's what's happening in the Video. Maybe that's how BK gets the really long burns, they keep firebox temps low enough on the slow burn that you never light up the firebox smoke. So does that mean the Fireview is not really a "cat only" stove?

True "Secondary mode" happens when the baffle plate lights up like a barbecue grill.Then you see jets of lit smoke darting below the plate.

 

[Todd]

From this link

"The Hybrid Fyre™ flattens the emission curb which means all four
burn rates are significantly less than 1 gram per hour. As i
comparison, a typical non-cat emission curve starts dirty at lowburn, cleans up in mid-burn and emissions increase in the highburn rate creating a U-shaped emission curb. A typical catalytic
emissions curb starts lower and increases as the burn rate gets
higher. The Hybrid Fyre tm also reduces the carbon monoxide
level in all burn rates to less than 1/10th of a percent therefore
giving us a combustion efficiency over 95% (using the B 415 test
method). Overall efficiency at all burn rates is in the high 80
percentiles. As an example the overall efficiency during medium low burn is 89.6% (B 415)"

Interesting, that answered my question, thanks.

 

[Todd]

This does look like a low burn to me. Those are not secondary "jets", they are dancing flames and some firebox smoke burning. Even with the Fireview (a "True" cat stove), firebox temps would eventually climb high enough to light firebox smoke and take some of the work from the cat. I think people are mistaking thinking a black firebox (no flames) is the only way to run in cat mode.

I can't speak for BK stoves, but with my Fireview, the firebox eventually got hot enough to fill the box with rolling flames. That's what's happening in the Video. Maybe that's how BK gets the really long burns, they keep firebox temps low enough on the slow burn that you never light up the firebox smoke. So does that mean the Fireview is not really a "cat only" stove?

True "Secondary mode" happens when the baffle plate lights up like a barbecue grill.Then you see jets of lit smoke darting below the plate.

My experience so far is the BK looks to be throttled down a bit more than the WS. Maybe the BK t-stat has something to with it? One difference I noticed is the air wash plate on the Woodstocks have holes which feed some secondary air which may cause some of those nice ghoastly floating flames at those lower burns while the BK doesn't have those holes and the fire box seems to stay dark.

 

[Huntindog1]

The Hybrid Fyre tm also reduces the carbon monoxide
level in all burn rates to less than 1/10th of a percent therefore
giving us a combustion efficiency over 95% (using the B 415 test
method). "

How does a stove lower Carbon Monoxide?

Then I am guessing that the lowering of carbon monoxide leads to a higher efficiency burn due to maybe more oxygen less carbon monoxide.

I said I was guessing

Ok found my answer online:

The less complete the burning (combustion), the more carbon monoxide is generated ... gas and oil furnaces, fireplaces, and wood stoves all generate carbon monoxide.

 

[rideau]

Not sure what the stoves settings are here but for a cat burn level like it says those are alot of flames but the glass is really clean. Can the stove lower down to hardly any flames? Can anyone with a Progress Hybrid tell us if it will go lower than this video. This video is described as a PH in cat mode.

Waulie's post, plus if you listen to Tom M talking on that video, he specifically states that they have not turned the air supply down enough to get a 12-1 hours burn, that witht he air setting they have in that viseo they will get an 8 - 10 hour burn...So, yes, you can turn the air down for a slower, longer cat burn. Easily.

 

[Huntindog1]

Yes I turned the sound up and I do hear that now thanks.

He said he can turn it down even lower to get a 12-15 hour burn.

 

[begreen]

That is interesting. The system looks very similiar to the PH, (as do the emissions and efficiency), but I wonder if the user experience will be the same. Someone buy one!

If Travis is willing to supply, I am willing to try and report.