cant seem to figure out....

[blowinsmoke9907]

i just bought a fisher fireplace insert from the lady who owns our farm. looks in great shape besides one side panel that had a lil rust. it also had a piece that is bent at a 45 or so that from the pictures i can find goes in the front facing out on the top part.what is that piece for?

also which one do i have? i cant figure it out by dimensions or anything. it is a double door version with the chain pull for the damper piece, cast iron doors with an m i or something like that on the inside of the doors. also has a number above the 2 letters i think one is 823 or something and the other 1045 i think. it has 4 bricks across the back and 5 down the sides.

 

[CamFan]

That piece was a heat deflector. It should have two 1 1/2" tabs on the bottom. It slid between the top of the stove and where the flashing attached deflecting heat from the top of the stove away from mantels.
Coaly can tell you what year etc but pictures would be nice for him.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I'll get him some pictures today sometime. I got all the pieces for it. the other question I got with it besides the model is how do u attach pipe to it having the damper and the rod goin across the top of it? I've looked for adapters but looks like I may have to eventually make something to mount on it to fit flex pipe on it.

 

[CamFan]

You will have to make something. I have welded a pipe to extend the flue to attach a pipe to. you just have to modify the pipe to allow the damper to still work. Just make sure what you weld on your flex will fit to it.

 

[coaly]

Here's pictures, it deflects the heat away from under mantel.



To attach to liner search "insert boot" for threads.
You can notch the boot where it contacts insert top for damper rod. They are available in steel, stainless, or cast iron.



The full size "Fireplace Insert" should have 4 bricks across back, and 6 on each side.
Here's the manual that shows break down including heat deflector;
https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/fishinsertmanual.pdf

Damper chain control was used before handle linkage style.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

thanks coaly. Could you add a baffle the same way as you would a rear exit? Just put a couple pieces of angle on the front and back with some space in the rear and front and either put some fire brick or steel so the heat reflects off but the smoke has a way to travel in the front and back up and around the bricks to exit? Or am i not reading or miss reading how it is done?

 

[coaly]

There's a few pictures on threads of homemade baffles in Inserts. They look like a frame made with angle iron to support a brick shelf. You want it all the way to the rear so unburned particles need to travel forward where there's more heat and oxygen before going through the "smoke space" above it. Just make sure the space for exhaust to travel is at least the square inch area as the outlet. 50 square inches or more in your case. Here's that type in a Grandma;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...er-stove-updated-with-2ndary-burn-idea.28006/

Using a flat steel plate on an angle like in the later freestanding double door stoves takes up room in the back of an Insert. I set the back of plate on the "brick shelf" across back, and prop brick pieces against the sides towards the front to angle the plate upwards at the front. By sliding side bricks fore and aft you can adjust plate angle easily. The baffle thread shows pictures of added welded angle iron to the sides of baffle plate to keep the side bricks tight against the side walls. (but not necessary unless you're rough loading)

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I've looked at the pictures and reading but can't figure out how to get the size plate or how many bricks to use and if laying a brick on its side to get the height of the shelf right or not. Not real good with numbers.

 

[coaly]

If you're making a smoke shelf baffle plate, you only set the flat plate on two bricks on their side edges at front edge of plate. The drawing below shows brick and plate.

If you're building your own angle iron frame, like pictured in above post #7 link; build frame to fit bricks or cut bricks to fit frame. The "smoke shelf baffle" single plate is simple and takes minutes to install.

Measure across the inside of stove wall to wall (above brick) and make or purchase plate about 1/2" shorter so it fits easily across stove.
The depth (front to back) size varies with pitch. If you're putting the plate flat horizontal, measure from back to about where the outer shell stops (where the front of the Insert sticks out of the fireplace) Make sure the baffle covers the outlet, so no rising exhaust goes straight up the outlet without going around the plate. The steeper the angle, the longer the plate needs to be. You can draw a line where it will go with chalk on the inside (or outside if not installed) and measure the length of line for an approximate.
Depending on height needed at front, you can lay a full brick on it's long edge on top of the side brick retainers where front of plate will be. With plate on an angle, it will set on the corner of brick. Or if you need it higher, stand the brick up height wise and use that to set the front edge on. As you move the side bricks forward, the plate will lower in the front. Pushing them toward the rear will raise the front of plate.
These are one piece brick retainers down the side to set an upper brick on against wall.

You can set the plate directly on the rear retainers, or put a brick sideways across back, on edge to raise plate for better loading area under plate.

Some stoves will have small lengths of angle iron like tabs for each brick.......... In that case you have to set brick between tabs, possibly cutting a brick. (or cut corner on an angle to sit plate on) They cut easily by scoring with masonry blade and snapping down the score line.

Lots of pictures of what you have are needed for details of the way you need to do it.

I'll draw baffle in red and brick in blue on the side of a stove drawing. (click on drawing to enlarge) The blue line is top of brick retainer inside stove. Do the same with chalk measuring where the brick retainer would be through the stove wall. (transpose blue and red line on exterior of stove with chalk to get plate line length)

The plate can stop anywhere as long as it's ahead of the vent opening. The farther forward, the more heat directed to the Insert top that sticks out of the hearth. Not a factor if using a blower. This moves the hottest area that WAS at outlet to above front plate edge.


These are measurements of the full size insert.
As you can see, sliding the added upper brick drawn in blue raises the plate when slid toward the rear, and lowers plate when slid toward front.

Adjust plate height at front to the smoke space required. This cannot be smaller than outlet vent opening square inches. (50)

As an example, a stove measuring 25 inches across the inside would need 25 X 2 inch space, or 50 square inches.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

Here is a picture of what I made. I had a piece of 1/4 inch plate and used fire brick on the their sides and put four standing up angled like the back and pushed the plate against them. Here is a picture if I can figure out how to post it and let me know what u think.

 

[coaly]

Yep. Ya did good. If you tend to knock the side bricks out and crash the plate, weld or bolt angle iron on the plate around the edges so it sticks down along the sides of brick holding the brick in place.
Here's one upside down that keeps the brick from falling into the center.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I got a fire in her now and either my room is jus. Tightly sealed or I ddon't have a good enough draft cuz to get the fire hot I gotta leave the door cracked and their is a funky odor coming from it. Idk if it's the high temp paint from gettin hot it's first time or what.

 

[coaly]

Plastic toys and little balls are not unheard of stuck in between the inner and outer plates for the blower air space. Fresh paint will smell big time the first fire, and smoke off.
Does it smell anything like the smoke from it outside?

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I think it was the plant curing on it because after I kept everything open for an hour or so to get hot and stay hot it died off and been running sense 4 pm and don't have any smell anymore. Do have still some crap stuck between the inner and outer I just can't get out but don't seem to be affected so Idk how to get it out. I got my den which is larger than a 2 car garage around 83.3 but can't get it to move out of the room. Any suggestions?

 

[coaly]

Fan in doorway? (hot air exhausted out) IF you have a second doorway for intake. They make a small square one for hanging in doorways. If you only have one doorway to blow warm air from that room into the rest of house, it's difficult to remove hot air from that room without returning air back into that room. You really need to pull the air out, and have another opening for cool returning air. So with a single door, leaving door open for air return, and cutting a small hole in the wall, high near ceiling for fan does the trick. I have 1880 s.f. heated with single kitchen wood stove on one level. One adjustable speed fan in a 6 inch square hole maintains a 10 degree difference through entire house. We run it about half speed. But I built it with an open floor plan in the front half where stove is, and have an open hallway to return cool air back to stove. You can't move heat in or out of an area without considering the return air to make the air move easier. Otherwise a fan will pressurize or depressurize an area and move very little.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I got a backdoor right by the heater I use for when I start it up. It don't seal real great so it's always gettin a lil air in. My house is almost 1900 sq ft. It's pretty open besides the big den that's off the back on the right side where the stove is at. Can u show me a picture of how ur fan is set up and stuff? I was thinking they make a doorway fan was gonna try it and see how it worked.

 

[coaly]

Not referring to an outside door for stove intake air.
If you only have one passageway leading from the stove room to rest of house, you need a fan in the wall pulling hot air out, and allow open door for return air so the fan doesn't try to depressureize the stove room.
I'm not mobile enough to get around for pictures right away. Another episode of kidney stones and a day at the ER.
http://www.amazon.com/Achla-Designs-Room-Minuteman-Doorway/dp/B001FXVJ1U

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

Sorry to hear that! Just whenever you get a chance would be fine coaly.

 

[CamFan]

If you have a ceiling fan in the room set it to pull the air up toward the ceiling you will move some of the heat out that way. If you blow down with the fan nothing will happen to help.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

I got one and its on the winter thing. I ain't figured out how to use the damper to help burn longer tho. Only got about 4.5 hours or so on a burn last night. I can't shut it all the way cuz smoke will come up then just don't know the best combo yet. Any advise?

 

[coaly]

The chimney is the engine that drives the stove. So we're going to need lots of info.

1). Have you read the owners manual installation and operating instructions ?
2). Metal liner (stainless steel pipe) connected to Insert all the way to top ?
3). Chimney; Inside house, or exposed to outside?
4). Masonry or metal ?
5). Inside flue diameter ?
6). Height ?
7). Chimney cleaned and inspected ?
8). Fuel species and time seasoned if known ??
9). Screen for open door burning, or only burning with doors closed?

When you shut the damper all the way, do you mean smoke comes into the building ??

After 4 1/2 hours what did you have left? Charred wood, coals, or all ash ??
Thermometer reading anywhere, preferably on stove top that sticks out of hearth ?

A full size Insert holds enough to burn well over 8 hours with a pile of coals to lay the next load on. Are the measurements the same as the diagram I posted in post #9 above?

Always leave an inch of ash in the stove when cleaning out. And ONLY put ash in a metal container. Use wood ash the same as lime or potash in soil.

Another tip; If this has sat around a long time and you added some new brick....... The firebrick inside will absorb moisture from the air, and new brick has moisture in it that still needs to be evaporated. So your first fire isn't going to bring the Insert up to temperature like normal. The moisture in brick consumes heat to turn to steam, taking lots of heat along with it. So you will notice more heat output next time without doing anything different.

 

[CamFan]

Another thing to add to Coaly's post is for some reason people think they need a grate in their stoves. If you are using one take it out.

 

[coaly]

Thank you

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

i think i got it coaly. i think the reason it throws smoke in the house on days it aint windy is because my chimney is too big for the stove so i blocked one flue off at the top and that seemed to help some. i can now shut it all the way and let it burn. after about 4 4 1/2 hours there are coals. i can get it to hold a temp pretty good now but just the burning over night im still working on. idk if i should shut the damper all the way at night and when im gone or leave it a lil bit open and just crack one of the air vents in the front. i think this year i may knock my original chimney damper out and put a plate in the bottom and top and run stainless flex pipe. just gotta find the extra money to do it. can it flex enough to go thru a rectangle opening without having to grind and cut it all up? just need a few more tips on it and i should be set. and yes i keep about an inch of ash when i clean out. it does burn good enough i dont have to clean out but maybe once a week or so not burning alot just enough to keep it goin until the colder nights.

 

[blowinsmoke9907]

also the chimney is outside and is a masonry chimney. im gonna guess it to be maybe 15ft but i know no more than 20. ill get the outside dimensions of the outside tomorrow if that will help. it has 2 flues that are them rectangular reddish looking things goin up from the smoke shelf. blocking one off seems to help with it some. we been burning seasoned oak, maple, prolly some left over poplar and some cherry.