Carbon Monoxide almost killed us

[arcticcatmatt]

Last night my carbon monoxide detector went off at 12:30 a.m. I opened windows and went to bed. It went off again at 2 a.m. This detector came with the house and has a date on it. It is 5 years old. Hours before I took asprin because I had a headache and my girlfriend thought she had a migraine so she took her special migraine medication.

I researched these and found out the elements in them go bad in 3-5 years so they must be replaced.

Now, assuming the worst and assuming the thing was working, I researched what the problem could be.

It seems that the CO was created by the wood stove. When the fire goes out and you have coals, they are producing carbon monoxide. When we shut the draft a little too much, that CO leaves the stove and comes into the house.

Turning on a clothes dryer can amplify this as its sucking air from inside the house and pushing it outside. This creates negative pressure in the house and sucks the CO out of the fireplace and into the house. My girlfriend did 5 loads of laundry.

Tonight. I am going to modify our draft so that when we close it, it’s the same every time, no guess work. One inch open.

I picked up a new digital read out kidde detector today. Its now installed and reading zero. I have the other one at the other end of the house.

I sent this to all of you because all of us run the risk of the poison. Some detectors are junk according to the online testing I read. Most of the reports I read showed that the kidde brand was best.

If something is going to take me out, I'll be damned if its something like this that can be prevented/monitored.

 

[Todd]

Glad your both ok. Maybe you should look into outside combustion air for you stove?

 

[thebeatlesrgood]

good call on the new CO detector. $30 is a small price to pay for something that can potentially save your life. they're a nuisance 99% of the time, but it's that 1% that makes opening every window and fanning the detector every time you make bacon seem like a small price to pay. if your house is very tight and you notice the dryer often causing this problem, you should consider and outside air kit(OAK). if your stove can accommodate one.

 

[Chettt]

Do you think the CO could be from any other device than the wood stove? I lived in an old house once that was divided up into apartments. The furnace was producing CO and had to be red tagged and replaced. I remember getting dizzy and couldn't figure out why. Just to be safe you may want to move the detector around any gas stove, gas clothes drier or furnace.

 

[yukiginger]

The house must be pretty tight. I would definitely get an outside air kit, or make sure that a window is cracked when running the dryer, or both. Maybe a vent somewhere that allows in some air when the negative pressure is created. Thanks for the heads up to everyone.

MarkG

 

[temporary]

Hi Arcticcat, you make a lot of statements about what you think made the CO. Are these guesses? Assumptions? facts? Most of what you say CAN be true but isn't very likely. I wouldn't be setting my draft at one inch open either, that would cause a runaway stove on many stoves.

Don't be so quick to blame the stove. Does your home burn any petroleum like coal, NG, or propane? Your mistake might be diverting attention to the stove when your water heater is the culprit.

I would make it a priority to find the actual source of the CO and not just guess at this.

 

[begreen]

From the sounds of things, I'd also go for the outside air kit. What stove is this?

I'm curious about how the house is designed. Is there a fresh air makeup system already installed? Is it sized and functioning correctly?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

my advice is to check with your local fire marshall and see if they have a program where they would come to your home and use mobile detectors to test potential appliances for CO generation. i agree with the panel about the OAK especially if the flue is affected by the dryer running , this magnifies negative pressure and in a marginal draft situation can magnifie the shortfall in draft. and as alway a reminder to regularly check your CO and smoke detectors and install new batteries in battery powered detectors beginning of the heating season and at the midway point of the season. the life you save may be your own.

 

[Shari]

My suggestion: Find the source, don't 'assume'. Call your utility company or your local fire department to check this out a.s.a.p.!

Shari

 

[BrotherBart]

That it started "hours before" says to me it isn't the wood stove if you had a good fire burning and it was drafting well. In that case any CO was going up the pipe and out to the atmosphere. Even with connector pipe leaks. They would have been sucking air in, not releasing gases into the living space.

If the chimney isn't plugged. And in that case the lousy burn should tell you that.

 

[Prada]

OK you have got me going to the store first thing to buy a CO detector! We have 2 fire detectors but they have no CO detection on them. No matter what the culprit is, we all need these in our homes. When I was younger I lived in an apartment building and in the apartment right next to me, the girl that lived there had to call the squad because she could not wake her mother. It turned out to be carbon monoxide and the fire department immediately came to each of our apartments for no charge at all and checked each and everyone of our appliances. Give them a call right away to do that for you please.

 

[BrotherBart]

Always have plenty of CO detectors folks. Stove or no stove. There are five of them in this joint. Don't even ask how many interconnected smoke detectors and fire extinguishers.

 

[Shari]

I understand the state we live in (Wisconsin) will be requiring CO detectors in ALL residential & rental properties starting either in 2009 of 2010 (can't remember which year). We have two different types of fire detectors in our house. One detects heat and the other detects smoke. (There are better names for these types of fire detectors which we have but that is how I describe them.) We also have a CO detector. We, all members of our very extended family, are very conscientious of having the proper detectors after we suffered the loss of a family member in a house fire.

Shari

 

[karl]

I want some details.

How big is your house?

How big is your stove?

How tight of a house is it?

Did you guys have signs of CO poisoning? Head ache, yes. Blue finger nails? Drunk feeling or beligerant feeling?

I don't see how coals in a stove could reverse draft to the extent to fill a house up. Then again, I live in a house built in 1964, I would love for it to be tight enough to have that problem.

 

[arcticcatmatt]

wow, lots of questions to answer here

Stove/heater - Russian fireplace AKA masonary heater. 2 fast hot fires a day then just about close the draft (one inch open).
Sq feet - 1200 upstairs/1200 basement
How tight is house - No idea. Draft is very good. Hooking up manometer this week. Got it here, just have to get it installed.
Forms of heat - Fuel oil hot water tank, fuel oil base board (not on), coal stove (not on), masonary heater (on)
Headaches - Just the past few days. We burn 2 fires a day.

Do I know it was the wood stove? No. BUT 2 days ago I set the draft too tight. Filled my walkway with smoke. Maybe MAYBE it had an effect.

How can I use an outside air kit on a heater like this? Any one pictures? Links?

I will be talking to my local fire department. I pay the taxes that keep them up and running. I didn't want to be a pest.

 

[woodjack]

My bet is that the CO is leaking from the chimney. I've seen this situation before with an oil furnace.

 

[drizler]

You will like that Kidde digital readout unit. I bought one of those back me thinks in 1988. It still works as good today as it did when new. I usually test it yearly when working on the snowmobile. Fire it up in the garage with the door closed and watch the numbers climb until the alarm goes off. I think I paid $35 for it way back then so it seems the price is hanging in there nice and low.

 

[cyclone]

Glad to hear everyone is okay.

I live in a bi-level ranch. The finished basement is my boiler room where I have my washer dryer and oil burner. Also in the basemnet is my wood stove. What I do where the oil burner and dryer are located is leave a crack in the window year round. For reasons mentioned concerning this post

 

[bokehman]

my carbon monoxide detector went off at 12:30 a.m. I opened windows and went to bed.

I think the scariest thing here is your response to the CO alarm was to go to bed.

 

[savageactor7]

hummm well I'm looking forward to matts follow up post...just hard to believe the CO is coming from the wood stove. I know folks that smolder their wood all the time and their detectors never go off.

When it gets light Matt you should check the vent pipes for all your NG or propane appliances...sometimes vents get obstructed by ice and snow and that's not as noticeable as the obvious birds nest.

 

[daleeper]

I am not speaking from experience, but from the research I have done in looking at masonry heaters. I would be checking that masonry heater for cracks in all the vent channels, as they age they will develop cracks and leak CO in hard to find places. Shutting down the upper chimney damper too early in the burn cycle will also allow CO buildup in the stove with no place to go but back into the house. Also check chimney for creasote, or some other blockage in the chimney that is slowing the air flow.

 

[raybonz]

Last night my carbon monoxide detector went off at 12:30 a.m. I opened windows and went to bed. It went off again at 2 a.m. This detector came with the house and has a date on it. It is 5 years old. Hours before I took asprin because I had a headache and my girlfriend thought she had a migraine so she took her special migraine medication.

I researched these and found out the elements in them go bad in 3-5 years so they must be replaced.

Now, assuming the worst and assuming the thing was working, I researched what the problem could be.

It seems that the CO was created by the wood stove. When the fire goes out and you have coals, they are producing carbon monoxide. When we shut the draft a little too much, that CO leaves the stove and comes into the house.

Turning on a clothes dryer can amplify this as its sucking air from inside the house and pushing it outside. This creates negative pressure in the house and sucks the CO out of the fireplace and into the house. My girlfriend did 5 loads of laundry.

Tonight. I am going to modify our draft so that when we close it, it’s the same every time, no guess work. One inch open.

I picked up a new digital read out kidde detector today. Its now installed and reading zero. I have the other one at the other end of the house.

I sent this to all of you because all of us run the risk of the poison. Some detectors are junk according to the online testing I read. Most of the reports I read showed that the kidde brand was best.

If something is going to take me out, I'll be damned if its something like this that can be prevented/monitored.

I had a clogged chimney at my 1st house and my gas furnace nearly killed us.. Bad headaches were the symptom.. No CO detectors back then.. Consider yourself lucky and you were smart to replace those old units.. Mass. law requires ALL homes (no grandfathering allowed) with fossil burning equipment have CO detectors on every level.. I used the battery Kidde units I think.. Small price for big protection..

Take Care,
Ray

 

[Redox]

Always have plenty of CO detectors folks. Stove or no stove. There are five of them in this joint. Don't even ask how many interconnected smoke detectors and fire extinguishers.

Five? And I thought 3 was obsessive.

One is in the mechanical room with the furnace and water heater and plugged into a really big UPS.
One is in the family room with the stove, also on UPS and has a battery backup.
One is in the dining room near the kitchen, also w/ battery backup.

All of them are Kidde/Nighthawks and I have NEVER had a false alarm. Then again, I've never seen anything but a big 'ol "0" on the display. I may just have to fire the bike up in the garage once to test them.

Chris

 

[Martin Strand III]

Serious stuff.

CO is a killer. I've personally known 3 people who have died from this and seen one - up close. Red ugly blotches on the skin and real dead. Not pretty. (And, not from my fire.)

When breathed into your lungs, the CO molecule combines with hemoglobin in your blood some 200X faster than oxygen does. In a very short time your oxygen carrying capacity of your blood is ziltch (zero) and brain starts showing signs and symptoms of oxygen want: headache, mental confusion, dizziness. Then very shortly, you become a corpse. Very, very dangerous.

Be smart. Know what you are doing. Keep yourself and your loved ones safe. It's your primary job.

Aye,
Marty

Grandma used tosay, "Play with fire and you'll get burned."

 

[neverrude]

3 CO detectors here with one being 6' from the stove in the ceiling and 9 smoke detectors .
I replace them about every 10 years