Castine pipe question for MSG et al

[begreen]

Well the Castine has arrived. There will be about 19 feet of pipe on it, straight up. But the installer doesn't want to do a rear exit, to a 90 then straight up. Instead he wants to come off the top and then do two 45 deg. offsets. This will look ugly and seems unnecessary. Is the Castine that fussy with draft? We had the 3CB with only abut 15' pipe with a rear exhaust and had too much draft, needed a draft damper. Please advise asap. They'll be putting in the stove soon.

 

[BrotherBart]

Can that installer come up with an argument for his way that is more convincing than your argument for your way. Your argument being that you are the one signing the check?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Well the Castine has arrived. There will be about 19 feet of pipe on it, straight up. But the installer doesn't want to do a rear exit, to a 90 then straight up. Instead he wants to come off the top and then do two 45 deg. offsets. This will look ugly and seems unnecessary. Is the Castine that fussy with draft? We had the 3CB with only abut 15' pipe with a rear exhaust and had too much draft, needed a draft damper. Please advise asap. They'll be putting in the stove soon.

The castine is one of the more draft sensitive that jotul has to offer, but not that sensitive. He is probably covering his butt. If you had a 13 foot chimney, i would be worried, but a 19'?? no way. Go out the back if you want. i agree it will look better, and worst case that he is right, and i dont think he is, add a few more feet. You will still need a draft damper IMO. If you like, go to the store web site and call me.
Sorry i didnt get back sooner, its been one stove sell after another this afternoon. we are swamped.

 

[begreen]

Correct. It turns out they didn't have a 90 on the truck. That was why he was advocating for the pair of 45s. We put the two 45s together to make a 90 temporarilly and they'll be out on Wed. with a true 90. Stove looks great in it's new home. Can't wait to light her up.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

funny, i almost said that he didnt have a T, that was the only thing that came to my mind to make him say that the install you proposed wouldnt work.

 

[begreen]

You were right on. He didn't have a tee either, even though I told him and the salesman to bring extra parts like elbows, tees etc. He was genuinely embarrased and happy that I could live with the 45s combo for a few days. Overall a nice crew and it looks like a good install. I'll post pictures tonight. The stove is pretty, but the house is still rough. New floors won't be happening for another two weeks.

 

[BrotherBart]

You two and that house have had a heck of a year. And it isn't over yet. I have to go sit down for a while after just reading about some of the work you have done. When I think about it in total, the mind boggles.

 

[begreen]

Amen BB. We've had more than enough, but my wife wants to get the mess done with and is pushing for the floors before the big cleanup. This weekend it's painting and wiring for the heat pump which gets final install on Monday or Tuesday. After all this I am going to need a lonnnnggg vacation. I never did experience summer. Mexico or Hawaii is sounding very good to me about now.

 

[Corie]

So BeGreen, whenever you have some pictures, I'll be waiting...................

 

[adrpga498]

Congrats BGreen
LEt me know how you make out. I have 1 90* at the "t" thats it as I explained in the email . Drafts very well.

 

[elkimmeg]

BEGREEN insist for a tee it will make cleaning a snap. You'll be very glad you did. You can also open the acces cover and monitor what going on in that chimney. Are you using double wall or 22 ga pipe as most 24 gage has adjustiable angle elbows?
the tee also is less restrictive than a 90 elbow.

 

[begreen]

The whole pipe system is DuraVent. Double-wall DVL pipe to the livingroom ceiling, class A from that point on up. That's an interesting observation on the Tee. I would have thought a 90 would offer a better smoke path with its radiused curve than a Tee. Why is the Tee less restrictive?

 

[elkimmeg]

Not an engineer here but code allows the first cionnection witha tee and does not add to the verticle length that it would with a 90.
A 90 curbs the path producing friction a tee allows the whole diameter int the verticle rise does this make sense?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

even though i dont agree with a 90 having more restriction then a T, you want a T. A T makes cleaning the chimney a snap, and prevents any creosote from running down into the stove, along with any water that might come in via the cap. The first 90* in any situation doesnt penalize you on the 5' rule. Thats why the t doest count.

 

[begreen]

OK, I'll go for the tee. Did the first breakin burn. Nice to see some flames in there. Though I did get smoke when opening the door and the fire was lazy to start. Once it got going it was fine. I'll post pics in the pictures section soon.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

you have that big 19' chimeny to start! a small fire would smoke a little. The castine is jotul's most draft sensitive stove next to the firelight, but with your chimney, you wont have any problem. I find it strange that the installers would consider installing a 90* elbow back there. thats pretty uncommon pratice in my neighborhood. What color did you go for?

 

[begreen]

Oy, now I find this out. I'm hoping some of the issue is also that it was only 55 outside. But this could be a challenge for my wife. Looks like I may be using some sawdust starters after all. The fire was lazy to start with dry kindling and construction lumber scraps. I may try the european plate in it for a bit if this becomes an issue.

We got the blue-black enamel finish again. We fell in love with this color on the 3CB and are happy we can get it in the F400. Once the fire got going it was really nice. Dampered it down and super secondaries kicked in. I like the air control. Much smoother than the 3CB. The stove is cooling down now, we may sneak a second burn in tonight. Install pics are now posted in the pictures section.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Begreen, not to scare you, draft is relative bewteen all the models. They all draft good, but some or more sensitive then others. The castine needs a good flue, and by all means you have a good flue. I think you will end up installing a inline damper.

 

[begreen]

I think I found the problem. Fortunately it is correctable. When they installed the double-45 to the stove, they let it droop a little. I put a level on it and found the connector pipe heading downhill about 3/4" over 6". This morning I managed to reduce the decline to about 1/2" and that already helped. When I put on the clean-out tee I will be sure there is a slight incline instead of decline. I think that may totally correct the problem, but if it doesn't I'll reverse the collar to a straight up exit and will put the 45's in the vertical run for an offset.

Based on our experience with the previous two Jotuls, I think you are probably right about the draft damper. I'll wait until I can run it up to normal temps and woodload to see how it behaves. It will be easy to install if needed. I love telescoping pipe. First time I've had it, but is sure does make adjustments easier.