cat and non-cat questions

[midwestcoast]

I know a guy who burned his PH for several weeks with the bypass open. He claims he didn't damage the stove but when he turned the air way down, he loaded up his chimney with a lot of creosote and soot. I would rather shut the stove down then take a chance..

I can beat that. I know a guy who ran an older cat stove that came with his house for many YEARS with the bypass open all the time. Burning wet wood, mostly oak. Smoke always rolling out the chimney. It was a second stove, but he burned it through the coldest 2-3 months of winter. Said it burned through wood too fast, LOL!
He had no idea what a cat stove was... until I started asking questions about his setup (what's this handle for?). I figured the cat must be toast after that & suggested he buy a new one, but he cleaned it out & Claimed it worked great (sure).

 

[brad wilton]

is that istove a pe product i think i'm going to go to the optometrist

 

[tarzan]

The EPA is mandating that stoves be capable of running at 2 grams/hour. Now, if they could just get 50% of the users capable of less than 5 grams/hr we'd be in business.

 

[tarzan]

I can beat that. I know a guy who ran an older cat stove that came with his house for many YEARS with the bypass open all the time. Burning wet wood, mostly oak. Smoke always rolling out the chimney. It was a second stove, but he burned it through the coldest 2-3 months of winter. Said it burned through wood too fast, LOL!
He had no idea what a cat stove was... until I started asking questions about his setup (what's this handle for?). I figured the cat must be toast after that & suggested he buy a new one, but he cleaned it out & Claimed it worked great (sure).

There was a guy on here a few months ago who bought or concidered buying (can't remember wich) a BK from a guy who had ran it bypassed for quite a few years.

 

[velvetfoot]

There was a guy on here a few months ago who bought or concidered buying (can't remember wich) a BK from a guy who had ran it bypassed for quite a few years.

Would that cause any actual harm to the stove? Maybe it was a good deal if no damage.

 

[tarzan]

Would that cause any actual harm to the stove? Maybe it was a good deal if no damage.

I wouldn't think it would harm the stove, possibly the cat would need replaced from the buildup?

I'd bet that you could flip the bypass handle, come back the next morning and the stove would no longer be for sale

 

[jeff_t]

Would that cause any actual harm to the stove? Maybe it was a good deal if no damage.

The bypass gasket retainers would be warped and/or missing, but that's about it. That whole area in and behind the cat, where the smoke bypasses, is pretty substantial steel, maybe 3/8-1/2".

 

[Ashful]

What I'm getting at is why would a hybrid be needed then? If they could get the best results with a cat only stove they would. Why complicate it if it isn't more effective? I'm sure it's not a huge difference, but some companies are aiming for the very best results.

The hybrid design is to burn cleaner when there is a large volume of wood outgassing at once. It adds secondary combustion for a more complete burn. This should also translate into more heat produced. The cat is for low burn rates and secondary combustion is for high burn rates.

I think I have recently learned the answer to this. The catalytic stoves are vastly superior at achieving low and slow burn rates. They can also run higher burn rates, still as efficient (or more) than a non-cat. However, there is always going to be some burn rate at which you can get that big static load of fuel producing wood gas so quickly that the cat over-fires while trying to keep up with what the firebox is producing.

This may be the biggest advantage of the hybrid. At high burn rates, the non-cat reburn funtions well enough to take care of the majority of the wood gas, when it might be likely to cause a cat overfire in a purely catalytic stove. At low burn rates, the non-cat reburn fails, but the cat is right behind it cleaning up what passes thru. It's an ideal system, in that regard.

 

[wildcatbb]

I can attest...owning an englander nc30 and a progress hybrid...the progress seems to go way longer, with higher temps. Once you get it hot and fire the cat, just sit back and let it eat. Load at 9:00 pm and still 300-350 in the morning on reload . Granted the stone don't cool near as fast as the steel stove, and the englander does every thing it's supposed to, but my cat stove is far superior in every aspect with the exception of how fast the steel stove heats up of course. The other thing I noticed is coaling. I feed both stoves the same wood and the progress has very few coals and super fine ash at the end of a load whereas my nc30 has a bunch more unspent coals that I have to keep raking around and messing with. Also, I've never had an over fire with the progress, came close to 600 once but it usually cruises around 350-400 on the stovetop thermometer which easily heats my 3000 sq ft!

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam, when you burn at the lowest setting do you get any smoke smell at all in the house?

Absolutely no smoke smell. My flue is all vertical, double wall connector, and no screen to hurt draft. If I try and reload while the previous load is still burning I do get some spillage from the loading door though. Fortunately that doesn't happen very often.

 

[Highbeam]

This really comes down to how well its designed. The IS goes into a very deep cat burn when you ask it to. So deep that it can and will leave you with black glass. It will burn for a very long time like that. How long? I don't know, nor do I really care. I like being able to see through my glass and I can easily get 14-16 hours on a full load without needing to go there. In really cold weather 11-12 hour runs are no problem. It will very effectively run low and slow IF that is what you want it to do.

I do not use this stove to its full ability. I have never packed this thing completely full. If I cleaned all the ash out and packed her to the gills running low and slow 20 or more hours would be very doable.

If you think20 hours from 3.2c.f. is low and slow then that's your problem right there. That IS would need another 50% plus longer burntime before it can even approach low and slow. 16 is fine but 30 is better.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Absolutely no smoke smell. My flue is all vertical, double wall connector, and no screen to hurt draft. If I try and reload while the previous load is still burning I do get some spillage from the loading door though. Fortunately that doesn't happen very often.

I think most stove will spill some smoke if you reload during active flames.

 

[Tenn Dave]

16 is fine but 30 is better

Not necessarily better, just longer. If you want clean glass and a fire view it's not better. All depends on what you are looking for.

 

[JA600L]

If you think20 hours from 3.2c.f. is low and slow then that's your problem right there. That IS would need another 50% plus longer burntime before it can even approach low and slow. 16 is fine but 30 is better.

At 30 hours what is your stove top temperature? I was away for 3 days and the inside of my firebox was still warm when i got home so thats what a 72 hour burn?

 

[Ashful]

16 is fine but 30 is better.

Not necessarily better, just longer. If you want clean glass and a fire view it's not better. All depends on what you are looking for.

"Better" is the ability to do both. Set dial to "2" and you get 16 hours with clean glass and fire view. Set dial to "1" and you get 30 hours.

 

[Hogwildz]

I love this stuff. Feels like I'm sitting listening to a gaggle of cackling hens.
Go ladies, go.....

 

[Hogwildz]

View attachment 152734

Man, you got that right.

 

[Tenn Dave]

"Better" is the ability to do both. Set dial to "2" and you get 16 hours with clean glass and fire view. Set dial to "1" and you get 30 hours.

After 12 hours, more burn time just doesn't matter to me. I enjoy interacting with my stove after my second cup of coffee in the morning and 12 hours later in the evening. It works nicely for my retirement schedule. I can easily get 16+ hour burns but choose not to. And it only takes 4 splits of oak and/or hickory to do 12 hours. If you guys need or want 30 hours in warmer weather, go for it. I prefer to use the high efficiency heat pump.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I love this stuff. Feels like I'm sitting listening to a gaggle of cackling hens.
Go ladies, go.....

We only do it because we know it makes you so happy. Enjoy......

 

[JA600L]

A lot of people I know who are running the Ideal Steel are afraid of turning it down so you aren't hearing about 20+ hour burns. I experimented yesterday into today. Unfortunately, I got a late start on it but I did capture what was left at 16 hours into the burn. This is using large white oak splits on notch #2.

 

[tarzan]

Well, after six pages we have learned that 2020 regs are achievable by cats, non cats, and hybrids so when that day comes we will all still be able to chose our flavor and defend it vigurously Hopefuly there will be even more to chose from by then.

I will admit though, I had to go back to page one because I forgot what the op's original question was!
"Cat vs. non-cat" "Which type will stay at its peak temperature longer?"

Well, if by peak temp the Op means on the verge of over firing then I think firebox size would be about the only determining factor cause there ain't gonna be a nickels worth of difference in any of them running this way.

A BK cat stove would be the obvious choice for long burn times but with the op's heating needs, with one stove, I'm leaning toward thinking he would benefit the most from concentrating on firebox size first unless he realy focuses on insulation

 

[Ashful]

I love this stuff. Feels like I'm sitting listening to a gaggle of cackling hens.
Go ladies, go.....

I think it's appropriate conversation for a cold and wet Monday in February.

 

[tarzan]

I think it's appropriate conversation for a cold and wet Monday in February.

What's even more ironic is 5 minutes ago I WAS in the chicken coupe listening to a gaggle of cackling hens. Just couldn't get that loving feeling about it though!

 

[firefighterjake]

Soooo . . . what's the Cliff's Note version of this whole thread?

 

[Tenn Dave]

What's even more ironic is 5 minutes ago I WAS in the chicken coupe listening to a gaggle of cackling hens. Just couldn't get that loving feeling about it though!

Only the Hog can get his lovin' in a chicken coup.