Cat vs non cat

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peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
7,681
Northern NH
I think the savings have not much to do with cat or noncat.
It has to do with having a hugely (50%?) inefficient stove and going to a much more efficient stove (75%?).
Not with a 1 or 3 % difference between different types of (modern) stoves. (And I believe that the ultimate record holder in efficiency, regardless of stove size, is in fact a non-cat? Forgot which one.)

I think Peakbagger hits the nail on the head: what BTU needs do you have - at the various times of the year, and what stove can best meet them. You may have to compromise sometimes (i.e. a sweater on or a window cracked) depending on what the stove you choose can do, but minimizing such compromises is what is best to do. That's why bholler asked for how the old stove did - as it's then (a bit, roughly, guesstimated) known how many BTUs you need.


Another way to meet the compromise is to have a (modern, efficient) stove that can't turn down well, and add a minisplit for the shoulder season lower need for heat.
Thats my method, wood boiler during cold winter, mini split in shoulder seasons (above 20degrees daytime).
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,993
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Remember, this 1000 sf cabin has huge tall ceilings so by volume is equivalent to a much larger home. At least a reasonably normal size home.
 
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shockman

Member
Sep 7, 2013
25
Kamloops
The mini split and also stove fans are not considered until solar is upgraded 😄. Which is another question I have do any of the new stoves have or depend on fans ?
Thanks for the comments as they are giving me a clearer picture of these new stoves.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,200
Long Island NY
Many stoves can be installed with a fan kit meant to increase the heat output. But none are dependent on them afaik.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,993
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
And some of those optional fan kits can be VERY expensive for a limited benefit and they all make noise. I would suggest trying the stove without the fans and purchasing later if you feel that you need more output.
 
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shockman

Member
Sep 7, 2013
25
Kamloops
What about fresh air supply? Is that a cat only thing? I could probably easily get air underneath with a hole to crawl space under stove but not as much fun as it sounds as would have to come up from underneath to be between floor joists with about 30” space 😜
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,200
Long Island NY
No, a fresh air supply (or outside air kit, OAK) has nothing to do with a cat stove. The benefit (not using heated air from your room that results in sucking in cold air into the home thru the cracks) is the same for any stove.

This is sometimes needed if a home is really tight (e.g. mobile homes, or modern well-insulated homes) as there are insufficient cracks to provide make-up air.

It is more efficient, but generally not needed imo.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,993
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
What about fresh air supply? Is that a cat only thing? I could probably easily get air underneath with a hole to crawl space under stove but not as much fun as it sounds as would have to come up from underneath to be between floor joists with about 30” space 😜
I installed a fresh air supply down into my vented crawl space. Required in my area and I believe all of Canada. I did it for a noncat and continue to use it on my cat stove. It makes sense to me to not burn up the inside house air.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,200
Long Island NY
I thought that requirement was canceled at some point.

Regardless, I don't believe it affects things poorly, it only makes things better. So if you can, go for it.
I'm not sure all stoves sell them (connectors etc.)?

(I would have done the same, but I can't as my stove is in the partially below grade walk-out basement on a slab, and OAKs can't go up in order to avoid reversal of air flow.)
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
7,681
Northern NH
There are and were boilers with induced or forced draft fans. Definitely a different animal than a woodstove.
 

BKVP

Minister of Fire
One thing you might miss about your old Fisher compared to any modern catalytic or non catalytic wood stove...Nothing gives off thet melt your face heat. We often tell folks that purchase our products that have owned our old, pre EPA models (and other pre EPA models), you will not have that same mass output as the old stove. One thing you can look at is the public facing test reports on each manufacturers websites. Since you observed slow burn would be ok once the cabin is heated up, you will find the actual efficiency for each burn rate and you may find some models have much higher efficiencies are the various burn rates.

Regardless, low on your current stove is still much higher than most modern wood stoves due to improvements to clean burning at lower burn rates.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,254
South Puget Sound, WA
The unshielded Drolet Austral III is a highly radiant stove if that is the experience desired. It has no side shielding, so clearances are greater than its shielded siblings. It will provide that strong warmth similar to the Fisher, but with a nice fire view and much less wood consumed.
 

shockman

Member
Sep 7, 2013
25
Kamloops
Well I did it,! Couldn’t resist the price, found a Drolet Escape 2100 for half price. My neighbour at the lake lives in the lower mainland (Vancouver) stumbled on it at his local Canadian Tire regular price $2000 for 1000. I went on their site to find size appears to be a large one so jumped on it. Now I have questions about new chimney. It seems Canada has slightly different rules than US. I’m wondering about inside stove pipe and whether I should use single or double wall ? Knowing that I need to transition to insulated at cathedral ceiling. We need a WET certification to appease insurance companies and I don’t know if that applies in US
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,200
Long Island NY
Double wall has lower clearance requirements, and in general makes things better. Safer and better performance.

Do get a flue probe if you can.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,200
Long Island NY
A thermometer. For double wall pipe, you need a thermometer with a "pin" that sticks thru the double wall into the path of the exhaust gases.

(Single wall can do with an on-surface magnetic thermometer.)
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,993
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Double wall is superior. Made of stainless steel so will not rust out, warmer flue temps so better draft. The pipe doesn’t heat your house, the stove does.

Enjoy the drolet.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,254
South Puget Sound, WA
Agreed. Most stove companies recommend not going over 8' in single-wall due to heat loss. Personally, I have only installed double-wall. It's a better product and better performer for modern stoves.

Congratulation on the good stove deal.
 

mxbowles

New Member
Sep 7, 2022
2
20111
Shockman, thanks for the thread! This is helpful as we too are looking to replace and old stove.
We live in a log home heated with a Grandpa Fisher (1980) situated in the middle of the main floor with 20ft ceilings at the peak with a loft.

Below 30 in Northern Virginia the heat pump can't do much and the Fisher can bring us to 68 with it being very warm upstairs in loft. Makes creosote like its going out of style, and I'm adding fuel every two hours to maintain temperature.

Leaning toward the Osburn 3300 (non-cat) after reading this, but last home we enjoyed a Hearthstone for years so a (cat) Mansfield is still in play. Same price for both to install, Mansfield with a tax credit, the Osborne without.

Please let me know how your Drolet plays out.