Catalytic combustor shot? (1990 Englander insert)

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Dustin92

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Nov 11, 2012
176
Jackson, MI, USA
Last week, I hauled in a load of wood that may-or-may-not have had some oily substance on some of the pieces, and at the time figured "oh well, it will burn off", forgetting about it until the next reload. I loaded the stove (full of course), waited for it to catch, closed the bypass and went upstairs. About 10 minutes later, I noticed black smoke billowing over the house and across the street. I headed to the basement stairs and could smell something was not right. Iliterally flew downstairs to find the stove burning fairly well, but with a room full of thick sooty smoke. I opened the bypass and it took off like a rocket, so I closed it about halfway and all was well. I then tried to close the bypass completely, and smoke billowed from the draft controls. Uh oh.... I left it partially open, and it burned ok, but would not stop belching sooty smoke from the chimney. I experienced the same smoke billowing from the drafts on the next attempt to engage the cat, this time with a new load of clean wood. We had a houseful over the Thanksgiving holiday/weekend, so burned it with the bypass partially open for a few days, the basement needed to be heated and we didn't have time or money to mess with fixing it. I did however notice, that with the bypass partially open, the stove produced far more heat than it had previously, and rarely did I see any smoke from the chimney. I don't know how well the cat was working before, although I do know it is the original cat from 1990. The stove was rarely used until the last 6 years or so, but when we moved in, the cat had been completely clogged with ash, and the stove had the same behavior it is showing now- billowing smoke from the drafts and tbe fire dying when the bypass is closed completely. I did vacuum the ash from the cat about two weeks prior to this incident, and there was quite a bit.
 
That cat be dead. Give it a decent burial in the back yard.
 
it'll work, personally im not impressed with them i actually beta tested a couple of them in my 24-ac, the first one was not "banded" it didn't hold up, the second one had the SS band and while it did hold up it didn't produce the heat i was seeing with the applied ceramics cell cat i had in it prior to the replacement.

at 50 bucks its cheap, but i have reservations about its performance as well as its durability based on how those cats did in my own personal stove.

full disclosure , we sell the applied ceramics cat its more than 3 times the cost, it can be found in the aftermarket cheaper than we sell it, condar offers "cell" cats as well (just to cover any thoughts im trying to push the OP to my sales department) i tried the "coral cat" as i called it, put a cell cat back in the stove after putting the clear skies cats through their paces and didn't look back.
 
But is it better than trying to run the stove with a worn out cat? Whatever direction we go, whether the cheaper one or a more expensive option, it will be cutting into our Christmas fund, that's why I'm hoping to be able to go the cheaper route.
 
But is it better than trying to run the stove with a worn out cat? Whatever direction we go, whether the cheaper one or a more expensive option, it will be cutting into our Christmas fund, that's why I'm hoping to be able to go the cheaper route.


yes, its better to run with a functional cat by any means. i get the cost thing which is why i posted the way i did. as i said the CS cat will work, but i had issues with the product when we looked at them.

i'd prefer that you get a new cat, if the CS is "within budget" then its better than doing without. besides , when i did my testing it was over a decade ago and i did submit my findings to them, maybe they have improved the product since then.
check out www.condar.com see what they have price wise. if its relatively close to get a cell cat my personal belief is they are better than what i tested (but like i said the foam cat by CS may be fine now, i simply cannot say for certain) just trying to give you the best information i have at my disposal.

hope this helps ya
 
I checked on Condar's website, and it is $129.99 to fit our stove. If there is truly no hope for the original cat (which, as far as this thread is going, should probably be buried in the back yard!), I will most likely go for the cheaper option, even if only to get through this winter. Like you said, it is better than none at all, and it probably wasn't working properly last year, because the fire had to be absolutely tearing to get it to light off at all. This year, I'm not sure if it has worked at all, and I'm constantly fighting to get it burning properly (even though the wood is the same from last year, so should be better seasoned) I really appreciate your advice, and might just use the cheaper cat for this winter, and buy a better one next year (will be easier to afford if we plan on it).
 
Second point. If that is a "slammer" install, meaning just pushed into the fireplace without a liner like we did it back then, you seriously need to get a look into the fireplace, chimney and smoke chamber the way it has been burning. It probably ain't gonna be a pretty sight.
 
well, the cats i tested back when i did would get you through the season anyway and they do work. so seeing as condar isn't that close then going with the CS wold be the way to go based on price point. one (and the only) thing i did like about the CS is that it lit off at a lower temp than the cell cats did (like 400F instead of 550F) as for CS, i dont want to come off like im ripping them a new one , im just stating my own personal findings with the product i tested over 10 years ago. the company was actually quite receptive to my input back then. the tech behind it is actually pretty neat as well.

if you do go with the CS cat i'd really love to hear what you have to say about its performance (and longevity) so , keep me in mind down the road if you get good value out of it.
 
Second point. If that is a "slammer" install, meaning just pushed into the fireplace without a liner like we did it back then, you seriously need to get a look into the fireplace, chimney and smoke chamber the way it has been burning. It probably ain't gonna be a pretty sight.


definitely, i didn't think about that was focusing on the cat, but BB is dead on if its a slammer install (no liner) if the cat hasn't been firing the flue could be pretty ugly.

nice catch BB that's why i love ya bro
 
Well, as far as I know, it is just set in the fireplace, but as of late october, the chimney (at least what can be seen from above) was fairly clean with only a little dry sooty powder. I really don't want to move the stove, as it is on a raised hearth (about 6"), and being in a basement, the floor under the hearth is concrete, but there is a raised floor on top of the concrete (so electrical and plumbing could run underneath), and I doubt that would support the weight of the stove.
 
I got brave today and decided to remove the surround and see what horrors lie behind it... It is just sitting in the fireplace, no liner, not even connected to the chimney. There was about 3/8" of powdery dry ash, with a little dry black creosote on top of the insert, and maybe 1/8" of what appears to be dry creosote above it in the fireplace. I vacuumed the powdery/ashy stuff off of the insert, and then managed to pull the insert out a bit (6" or so- to the edge of the raised hearth) , the stove is apparently not as heavy as it looks. All in all, I filled a vacuum twice with ash/soot, but all of it was dry. I found a few decent sized chunks of creosote, and saved one thinking "hey lets see if this will burn". I don't think I had much cause for concern, because I held the flame from a Bic lighter on that chunk for ~30 seconds (until I burned my finger), and couldn't get it to do anything more than smolder slightly. I do however plan on cleaning the fireplace out as soon as I can get some help to completely remove the insert.
 
Time to get the chimney inspected then install a liner with a block off plate!
 
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