Caught a blue Leprechaun

[precaud]

Perhaps there should be a separate forum for Craigslist scores.

This isn't as amazing a deal as nonprophet's F500 score, but the theme is similar: a couple (from SoCal) had just bought the house and wanted "that dirty thing outta here" so they could get their electric baseboard installed. Yes ma'am, happy to help you out, ma'am. A near-new dark blue enamel Waterford Leprechaun, complete with stovepipe and 6' of Class A double wall chimney, for $150 was too good to pass up.

I went to examine it today and I swear, there have been maybe a handful of fires burned in this thing. Hardly any soot in the upper chamber. The fire fence, which directs the primary air into the fire, was still packed in it's transport packing - a little rusty but perfectly clean - it had never been installed. One screw which secures the door catch had come loose, so the door doesn't close tightly. Instead of fixing it, they let it sit and just looked at it for more than 10 years.

It should be fun to play with. Pretty interesting air system design on this critter.

I'll post pics when I get it here this weekend.

BTW, PDF users manuals for the discontinued Waterford stoves are on the Regency website:
http://www.regency-fire.com/Customer-Care/Manuals/Discontinued-Manuals.aspx

 

[Nonprophet]

Perhaps there should be a separate forum for Craigslist scores.

This isn't as amazing a deal as nonprophet's F400 score, but the theme is similar: a couple (from SoCal) had just bought the house and wanted "that dirty thing outta here" so they could get their electric baseboard installed. Yes ma'am, happy to help you out, ma'am. A near-new dark blue enamel Waterford Leprechaun, complete with stovepipe and 6' of Class A double wall chimney, for $150 was too good to pass up.

I went to examine it today and I swear, there have been maybe a handful of fires burned in this thing. Hardly any soot in the upper chamber. The fire fence, which directs the primary air into the fire, was still packed in it's transport packing - a little rusty but perfectly clean - it had never been installed. One screw which secures the door catch had come loose, so the door doesn't close tightly. Instead of fixing it, they let it sit and just looked at it for more than 10 years.

It should be fun to play with. Pretty interesting air system design on this critter.

I'll post pics when I get it here this weekend.

BTW, Regency has PDF users manuals for the discontinued Waterford stoves on their website:
http://www.regency-fire.com/Customer-Care/Manuals/Discontinued-Manuals.aspx

Nice score Of course, you know it didn't happen until we see pics..........LOL!


NP

 

[begreen]

Nice score! That's a sweet little stove that puts out more heat than it's size would indicate. Good thing my garage is full or I'd be scanning craigslist too.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Sometimes folks just seem to fall in it. Great find! Congratulations.

 

[precaud]

Nice score! That's a sweet little stove that puts out more heat than it's size would indicate.

Do you have experience with it?

Good thing my garage is full or I'd be scanning craigslist too.

Sounds like someone needs to do some cleaning...

 

[precaud]

Sometimes folks just seem to fall in it.

It helps if you live in an area where so many people have more money than sense... buying stoves when they're in fashion and bailing on them when they don't use it.

"Oh honey, wouldn't that look lovely in the den..."

... time passes...

"Oh get that awful thing out of here, I never did like the way it looked there anyway..."

 

[precaud]

Here it is, sitting in my packing room. The enamel color isn't blue (it was dark in their shed when I saw it) but a nice burgundy-ish brown. It really is in like-new condition - time in a bottle - you can see the fire fence still wrapped up sitting inside. Sorry for the blurry pics - I'll post better ones after I fix the handle latch and get it installed and running. Should be fun!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

nice stoves as long as they aren't over-fired

 

[begreen]

Nice score! That's a sweet little stove that puts out more heat than it's size would indicate.

Do you have experience with it?

Good thing my garage is full or I'd be scanning craigslist too.

Sounds like someone needs to do some cleaning...

Sweet deal. The stove looks brand new. I like the mahogany color.

We have a close friend that used to have that stove in their living room. They loved it. From what I remember (it was many years ago), it runs similar to the 602. Gotta keep an eye on it, likes to run hot if you let it.

 

[precaud]

Yes, I can see that the cast iron pieces that form the baffle / secondary air system would be vulnerable to warpage if overfired.

Interesting that the primary air channel runs under the firebed for preheating. I've never seen that before. Clever.

 

[precaud]

From what I remember (it was many years ago), it runs similar to the 602. Gotta keep an eye on it, likes to run hot if you let it.

Sounds like my kinda stove...

 

[tickbitty]

Very pretty little stove! You going to use it? You have a lot of stoves, right?

When I saw the title of this thread I assumed "blue leprechaun" was some kind of name I had not heard yet for a special secondary burn flame!

 

[Nonprophet]

Gorgeous! When are you going to fire it up??

NP

 

[precaud]

tick and NP, yes, it is a pretty stove, I'm going to hook it up and play with it in a couple days. If I see any mythical creatures in the secondaries I'll let you know.
I have owned many (dozens of) stoves over the years, but right now this is my third, as I sold the F602 last fall. This will replace the X33 for now, which heats my workspace and 2 adjoining rooms.

Fixing the door latch was easy, fortunately the threads in the cast iron weren't stripped.

I think I understand now why the fire fence was never used, and why the stove was only used a few times. See the pic, which has the infamous "fire fence" in place. The primary air supply is very different on this stove, unlike any other I've seen. It enters at the rear of the stove (the opening is HUGE btw, which partly explains why it's so easy to overfire it), runs through a channel under the firebed, and then comes up through a slot beneath the door opening. From there, the fire fence feeds some of it into the fire through the slot you can see, and some of it washes UP over the glass. This is completely opposite of every other EPA stove I've seen. (btw, this thing is rated at 3.9 g/hr emissions - which is not bad.)

So, the fire fence is essential for directing the primary air - without it, the air all goes straight up and out the chimney. It also blocks about 1/3 of the door opening, making loading wood and removing ash less convenient. And it shortens the fire bed significantly - wood must be 14" or shorter with it in place. So it's pretty clear that the original owner saw this fire fence as a nuisance, never installed it, and burned a few fires in the stove without it. Problem is, without the fire fence in place, ashes plug up the primary air feed completely. So of course they were not happy with the results, and took the stove down and stored it in their shed. Apparently they decided wood burning wasn't for them after all, because they also removed the chimney system too. And it all sat in the shed until today.

So we'll see in a few days what it's like to use, and how it burns.

 

[Bobbin]

That is a pretty stove and it's mint. I don't understand the mindset of people who buy something wonderfully practical but then fail to "read the directions", suffer the learning curve, and master the basics of operating it (probably because I'm too frugal for that nonsense). It's nice to see savvy people snapping up wonderful deals on lightly used woodstoves. Every woodstove deserves an appreciative home!

 

[precaud]

Yes, there is an almost anthropomorphic beauty to these ornate European box stoves, I for one have an almost fatal attraction to them, even though a part of me knows better.

Somewhat in defense of the prior owners, the manual doesn't say a word about the fire fence. It's pictured in the parts diagram, and that's all. Very odd. So maybe the dealer was to blame for not informing them. Who knows.

Anyway, I've been burning the Lepre (Leper?) for the last two days, three loads each day. It definitely burns properly with the fire fence in place. By coincidence, the Lepre and the X33 (which it replaced) have fireboxes pretty much the same size. (The X33's is larger on paper but in reality you can't stack wood in it's upper half.) They both like about the same size of wood loads. So I thought it would be interesting to compare the two, if for no other reason than to compare an "old-world" stove that was upgraded to meet EPA stds, versus a "modern" one that was designed to burn clean and hot from inception. And they are a world apart.

I'll summarize first: Once you get beyond their appearance (which is a matter of taste and style - I like them both), I can't think of a single way in which the Lepre is a better stove than the X33. Not one. And that includes performance, ease of use, ease of maintenance, efficiency, you name it.

The Lepre is very much like other cast iron box-style stoves I've seen: Lots of heavy materials and exposed iron inside the firebox, hence it's slow to warm up and doesn't burn cleanly until the second full load. On the 2nd and 3rd loads it did burn nice and clean. So it takes one whole full load just to get the firebox up to operating temps. The X33 takes maybe 5 minutes, at most. The manual says the Lepre burns front to back, but in fact it burns both ends at once. Just like other EPA box stoves, the stove is so deep that the primary air doesn't reach to the back, so they put primary air inlets at the very back, and it burns from both ends at once. On the Lepre, there are four 1/2" holes back there. That's huge. That is what makes the stove want to "take off."

After three loads with the Lepre, the temperature in my lab is 4º lower than it is with the X33 burning the same size loads over the same period of time. And today was warmer outside than we've seen in a while.

Anyway, I could go on, but the point is, there are very real, every-day benefits to the newer stoves using modern firebox design (including low-mass insulating materials and minimal exposed metal.) These old-style stoves upgraded to meet EPA specs are like a coal-fired train compared to a modern diesel/electric one. And I know some of you think I rail on excessively about this. But the fact is, most folks have never used one of the modern stove designs, and certainly never had the chance to use old and new back to back to experience the difference. If you had that chance, you wouldn't go back.

I'm going downstairs to put the X33 back in.

 

[summit]

just don't burn that thing out: waterford parts are very difficult to come by.

 

[precaud]

It's a long way from needing parts. It was very interesting on Saturday having break-in odors coming from a 15-year-old stove!

Chances are it will sit in storage until next fall, and will be resold.

 

[precaud]

Not one to give up easily, I stared at the Leprechaun air system design for a while and decided to try some things to change the burn pattern and solve the 'runaway burn' problem. After tweaking it for a few days I'm happy to report success, and it now is a really pleasant stove to use - it warms up quicker, burns cleaner, and with no more runaway burn issue. Replacing the heavy firebrick liners with vermiculite would make it even better, but the main problems with this stove are 1) the air systems design and 2) manufacturing quality control. The fixes are relatively simple. If anyone's interested I'll provide details. I've been burning it all week and it's a keeper.

 

[begreen]

Do tell, with pictures! We have to see the little guy burning.

 

[Bobbin]

You definitely need to share the tweaks. It may mean zippo to most, but several will find it interesting AND you'll be putting important information out there for others to tap. And you know there will be others who will buy these stoves and who will be looking for information on their operation. Consider it a "public service". Or, your "civic duty".

 

[precaud]

Ok, thanks for your interest. Busy day today, so I'll dribble this out as time allows. For starters, here's a cutaway drawing of the air systems of the Leprechaun, essential for understanding how this beast works. Waterford thoughtfully provided it in the manual. More to follow.

 

[begreen]

Kudos for them putting this in the manual. But that is a lot of air. I see some hole plugging coming.

 

[precaud]

Here's the same cutaway, enlarged and with the air paths colored to make them more obvious. Red highlights the primary and window-cleaning air, violet is the secondary air, and green shows the "fire fence" mentioned in earlier posts, which plays a critical role in this stove, as will become clear.

The primary air enters the quite large opening at the rear of the stove, and immediately sees three 1/2" holes in the back plate, directly into the bottom-rear of the firebox. So guess where most of the primary air goes. And this is where the burn rate is controlled. More than anything, this arrangement is what makes the stove difficult to control. That's problem #1.

The rest of the primary air goes through a channel under the firebed, gets preheated as it passes through, and then goes three places. Some goes through about an 1/8" slot in the fire fence into the front of the fire. Some goes through an opening in the bottom of the door and runs through a channel that goes all the way around the glass, providing an airwash over the whole perimeter. But most of it goes through the 1/4" gap between the fire fence and the door, providing even more glass airwash. Too much of the primary air goes to cleaning the glass and never even reaches the fire. That's problem #2.

Now look at the fire fence (in green). Notice how it rests on the bottom plate of the stove, but it defines an air gap with the front door. This is asking for trouble. Unless the stove is perfectly assembled and every casting is perfect (neither of which are ever going to happen), the fire fence is not going to be square to the door (viewed from the front), and that air gap is going to be bigger on one side than the other. On my stove, it was nearly twice as big on the left than the right. That's problem #3.

Moving on to the secondary air, it enters an equally large rear opening, and immediately sees one 1/2" hole in the back plate, about halfway up the height of the firebox. This is quite a gusher of air shooting at all times across the top of the logs. And together with the three holes at the bottom, it makes for a "back-burner" stove. It burns from back to front. The main secondary air system consists of seven rows of holes drilled into the cast iron baffle, so the secondary air fires right down onto the top of the logs, and all the air from the four back holes passes through those jets of air, and heads right for the front glass. That's likely why they gave so much air to wash over the glass. That's problem #4.

Like I said, this is an unusual stove design, indeed. Amazing that it meets EPA stds. Besides the hard-to-control back-to-front burn pattern, there's not a good way to burn down coals when they've built up, something that is really important for a smaller firebox.

As it's designed, the flames move briskly from the back of the firebox, and collide/mix with the airwash air right in front of the glass. Seems like not the best approach. So my idea was, let's try moving that "collision point" away from the glass and back into the firebox under the secondary air baffle. The way to do that would be to get less air washing over the glass, more air through the fire fence into the front of the fire, and much less air coming from the rear. The hope is, with the mixing point inside the firebox, that would make it burn primarily front-to-back, make it easier to control, the firebox would heat up quicker, and give more primary air for burning down coals. The main uncertainty was; will there be enough airwash air to keep the glass clean?

Stay tuned for answers and photos.

 

[precaud]

BG, yep, you're right, there is hole plugging (and more) coming, for sure. Here's how I fixed this Leprechaun.

Most of the work was actually to the infamous fire fence, shown in the first photo. (I probably should have taken before/after photos of the whole stove, but didn't think of it.) We want to 1) get it square and parallel to the door (second photo) to balance the air feed, 2) close off most of the gap between the fire fence and the door, and 3) open up the slot so more air gets to the fire.

Getting the fence horizontally parallel to the door required lowering the left side by an 1/8". That's a lot of metal to remove, but a coarse file and lots of elbow grease got it done. I then filed the runners on either side of the fence so it rests squarely against the front of the stove, and bringing it parallel front-to-back to the door. So now the gap is the same all the way across, and we can experiment with filling it uniformly.

To close off most of the gap, I took a piece of perforated aluminum from an old electronics chassis, doubled the thickness on one end, and then cut/bent/pounded it into shape to fit snugly on the fence.

Opening up the slot: The casting work in the slot was very sloppy. They didn't bother to clean up the ragged edges in the slot. Using a file and a dremel tool with small grinding stone, I cleaned up all the rough edges and enlarged it so it is just shy of 3/16" high all the way across.

The door didn't need any work. You can see the hole where air is drawn through, which then "leaks out" around the entire perimeter of the glass. We'll see if this is enough airwash.

The third photo shows the fire fence with "gap closer" installed. Now when the door is closed, it only leaves about 1/32" gap all the way across, blocking most of the air that used to go up there.

Next we'll deal with the rear holes.