CFM Vermont Castings Dutchwest Catalytic vs. Non-Catalytic

[mikeathens]

Anyone have any experiences with both stoves? I currently have a large non-cat model and I'm finding it much more difficult to operate than my dutchwest cat model. It is also hard to replicate results, with every load contributing a different twist to operation. My cat model was easy to get started, get up to temp, and then switch to catalytic mode, often times within 20 minutes of lighting a new fire - high heat output and no smoke from the chimney. There were very few times, likely caused by atmospheric conditions beyond my control, where backpuffing or less-than-optimal draft were remedied by burning hotter than normal.

The non-cat model, however, has given a variety of results when doing things that, in my opinion, are consistent. The everburn system seems to be very finicky, even when running the stove at high temperatures. Sometimes when I think I'm going to see my chimney burning as clean as the catalytic model, there is smoke billowing out, as if I have a smouldering fire below (when in reality I have lots of flames in the firebox and high firebox temperatures.

The catalytic model almost always preformed flawlessly as long as a) firebox was above 450 F and b) there was constant flame in the stove. Also, the catalyst probe thermometer always let me know within minutes if things were going well.

Why did I switch? My house was too big and drafty for the small dutchwest catalytic model. After researching, I settled on the the large non-cat model beacuse of it's high heat output, utilization of my existing 6" chimney (the large dutchwest cat model needs 8"), price, and because of the elimination of the need to replace the catalyst every five years or so. But that was when I believed that it was "easier to operate" than the cat model, as stated by sales reps and sales literature. I don't know, maybe many people don't care how much smoke is coming out of the chimney, so to them, it's "working flawlessly". But keep in mind that that is one of the factors contributing to the stove's efficiency - tons of smoke out the stack equate to energy lost that is not going toward heating your house. That's the beauty of the catalytic model - smokey emission are easier to control and much less frequent than I am finding with my non-cat.

I'd like to hear what others think...

 

[Roospike]

Great review of the Vermont Castings Dutchwest models and how they work(ed) for you.

How much experience have you had with each model ? ( years - months )

With the cat model how often did you have to replace the cat combuster ? (if at all )
how often and what maintenance did you do with the cat ?

What kinds of wood do you burn and how long do you season it ?

Are you running either stove with a thermometer ?
what are your burning temperatures?

 

[elkimmeg]

Mike I tried to e-mail you questions and got it kicked back to me. I have other questions for VC and will try to call tomorrow

Mike and Roo there is further technology to make combustors more effecient and last longer. Personally I feel the Cat combustor stoves are being phased out.

At some point when they were improperly retrofitted into stoves, before secondary combustion chambers were designed, they got a bad rap. They never overcame the negative

image. I wish others had experience how my stoves preform. Its the closest I've had to set and forget. Many numerous post tell of having to add wood in 3 to 4 hours

to obtain a decent heat out put. It's not the fire box size mine is 2.2cuft and I get 8 productive hours on a load. Productive meaning , no less the 450 stove top temps after 8 hours

before re load. I'm not talking about raking enough coals for restart. At 450 or higher there are plenty od coals without raking, almost instant fire on re load .

I still have not packed every nook and crany in that stove to see long it will cook. 8 hrs works fine for my daily schedule.

More amazing is getting a 6 hour productive burn out of a cat combustor stove witha 1.25 cu ft fire box and over night raking the coals a little kindling smaller splits and off it goes.

I do very little fiddling with air controls. The small one vents into an outside 8/8 clay flue in.a chimney block chimney and still pulls a excellent draft through the Cat.

They are so clean in the cat ignition mode almost no smoke. I wish I could lend mine out for other to try and discover what I have. All Woodstock owners know what I'm talking about

 

[mikeathens]

Great review of the Vermont Castings Dutchwest models and how they work(ed) for you.

How much experience have you had with each model ? ( years - months )

With the cat model how often did you have to replace the cat combuster ? (if at all )
how often and what maintenance did you do with the cat ?

What kinds of wood do you burn and how long do you season it ?

Are you running either stove with a thermometer ?
what are your burning temperatures?

My first stove I bought was a small dutchwest cat in 2001 - it was in a 950 sq. ft. house, and it was incredible. Being well insulated, I had to open windows to maintain a comfortable temperature if it was above 20 F outside. It was perfect when the temp got to about 10 F. I used this for three years before I sold the house. Burn times in a well insulated house were anywhere from 6-8 hours (meaning I could place a couple stick on the coals, and have it back up to temp with damper closed within 15 -20 minutes. Maintenance: swept the chimney once per year (though it didn't need it - almost no creosote or soot build up), and took the top off of the stove in the fall and swept the combustor with a shop vac. That's it. Chimney was straight up through the roof. For that time, I burned a mix of hardwoods: Maple, oak, black walnut, ash, and hickory, seasoned at least 6 months. I split this to be about 16" in length and about half the size of a "normal" chunk of split wood, to fit in the small firebox. Stove temps (mag. thermometer on the side door) were anywhere from 450 F (that's about the minimum for a clean burn) to 700 F, combustor probe temp 1200 F to 1400 F, and chimney connector surface temp of 150 F to 250 F. ZERO SMOKE. It was rare that you could even get a hint of wood smoke smell in the air when it was up to temperature.

When I moved, the new house had this same stove already installed (in 2004). This was my only source of heat in this place, and it was a poorly insulated farmhouse/cabin at about 1800 sq. ft. In this house burn times were more like 3 -4 hours - I had to keep feeding wood in in order to feel like we had any heat. The stove worked perfectly, as before in my old house. Just not nealy enough surface area and firebox volume. We literally had to close off part of the house to keep warm when it got below 30 F outside. We did this for two years, and started to supplement with space heaters. When we got the electric bill (from $45 in the summer since we didn't have AC, jumped to $150 or more using space heaters), we decided a new stove was in order. We burned mainly 1-year seasoned oak block from the local mill in this one - last year (before we got the new stove) I burned almost exclusively one-year seasoned green ash. Temperatures during operation were nearly identical as before.

I really wanted another dutchwest catalytic, but the large (or is it "extra large"?) needed an 8" flue. I didn't have the cash or desire to replace the chimney at the same time as the stove. So I considered Hearthstone, Woodstock, and other Vermont Castings models. I knew how convenient and important side loading and an ash pan were to me, so the logical choice was the large dutchwest non-cat - it still used a 6" fule and had the fatures and heat output that I wanted, as well as a much lower price. It also eliminated the need for combustor replacement (though I would bet that a combustor could last welll over 5 years if properly maintained).

Don't get me wrong - I like my new stove, but after using it for a year now, I still don't have the hang of it. I had connector surface temps jump to 650 F one day, and the stove was literally ROARING - though not wuite as loud, it sounded like a kerosene-fired Reddy Heater salamander. This was something I NEVER had to worry about with the cat model. If the catalytic model "took off' on me, all you had to do was close the damper, and chimney temps (surface) would be under 200 within minutes. It didn't matter how much draft you had. I know once I get the hang of and am more comfortable with my new stove, it will be fine, but until then, I know that I never worried about leaving the catalytic model unattended after I got it up to temp. I would get it up to temp, close the damper, make sure the combustor probe got to at least 800 F, and walked away - It rarely went out or gave me problems once it was up to temp.