CFM Warranty - Deteriorated Refractory

[cmcramer]

CFM Corp "warrants that all refractory brick and material used in this product will be warranted against deterioration not resulting from physical damage or overloading of the woodstove for the lifetime of this product."

My 53 week old VC Encore NC has an obvious "deterioration" of the Lower Refractory (part # 30002414) due to thermal stress. That's my warrantee claim as just filed with my Dealer, and I'm stickin' with it. "Deterioration".....and ......"thermal stress"

This deterioration has taken the form of a crack in the refractory. Dealer says "we'll order the parts - no problem." I ask who will install parts - Dealer pauses and says he guesses he could. Call me in a week.

I'm pretty well steamed about this. All I've done is load the stove and burn wood! What the heck is "overloading the woodstove" and what is an example of "physical damage"? Is loading wood into the stove a cause of physical damage?

Comments?

 

[webbie]

A crack in refractory is quite normal. Many of these parts have have stainless steel reinforcing inside them (little threads of stainless), etc.

Unless you feel strongly that the part has a crack which is affecting the actual burning, I would suggest taking the part (if you get it) and stashing it for later use.

 

[cmcramer]

I want to play fair. If a small crack is quite normal, I'll drop my claim. Do we have a consensus here?

It's this type of experienced advice that makes this a really valuable discussion board.

Thank you very much.

 

[Cath]

I want to play fair. If a small crack is quite normal, I'll drop my claim. Do we have a consensus here?

It's this type of experienced advice that makes this a really valuable discussion board.

Thank you very much.

cmcramer,
I admire your integrity. But I'm guessing it would be hard to tell without seeing it in person or perhaps a decent picture. Unless there is a lot of warranty left I wouldn't risk dropping the claim only to have a possibly borderline crack become an actual problem.
~Cath

 

[webbie]

Yeah, it's not really a matter of fair because one persons crack is another degradation. Personally, I would take the piece if already ordered and store it for when it actually does fall apart (which it is like to do sometime.)

 

[dtabor]

As Im not up on the different terms for parts on a stove yet, what is this part you are talking about? I noticed last night that the stone looking piece with the design on it at the back of my firebox has a small hairline crack in it on the left side. I know this thing hasnt been overfired, I havent seen temps above 650-7 at any period and they dont stay there, only get there and then I damper down. The manual says temps 750 and over COULD result in damage. I havent seen those temps. Is this the same part that this post talks about? The stoves only a couple months old so warranty is good all the way around.

 

[cmcramer]

As Im not up on the different terms for parts on a stove yet, what is this part you are talking about? I noticed last night that the stone looking piece with the design on it at the back of my firebox has a small hairline crack in it on the left side. I know this thing hasnt been overfired, I havent seen temps above 650-7 at any period and they dont stay there, only get there and then I damper down. The manual says temps 750 and over COULD result in damage. I havent seen those temps. Is this the same part that this post talks about? The stoves only a couple months old so warranty is good all the way around.

Yep, that's it. The "stone looking piece with the design on it" is the "Refractory, Lower" according to your owner's manual. And yep, a crack is on the left side as you look into the stove. I would call mine more than "hairline."

Sounds like I'm not the only one......

Dealer asked me to call CFM Tech today to discuss what parts are cracked (despite the fact I told him - with part number...) ,

I'll keep you posted....

 

[webbie]

Refractory, BTW, is usually good up to about 2000+ F.....some hotter than that. It is most likely that physical shock would cause a crack. Not that you did anything wrong, just FYI.

 

[dtabor]

Well, I saw mine very obviously there so maybe more than hairline.

Sounds like a "common" problem maybe. Id appreciate hearing what CFM has to tell you. If it can wait til end of burning season, Id have it changed out then under warranty rather than having to shut it down to change out.

Craig, I cant think of anything I did that would have caused it shock. I have gloves so "place" my wood in. Unless my wife dropped something in there one time that Im not aware of??

 

[Eric Johnson]

As long as it stays put, cracked refractory doesn't undermine or otherwise affect the integrity of the stove. In my experience, it's pretty normal. You can go years on cracked firebrick with no problem.

I'd define "deterioration" as pieces coming loose and falling into the firebox, exposing the steel underneath. Anything short of that is just normal wear and tear.

That said, the warranty is what it is. Because it lacks sufficient clarity in the language, you might be able to push your claim to a successful conclusion. But I'd be willing to bet that the replacement piece cracks, too.

 

[cmcramer]

Refractory, BTW, is usually good up to about 2000+ F.....some hotter than that. It is most likely that physical shock would cause a crack. Not that you did anything wrong, just FYI.

Agreed. And my concern is the warrantee's disclaimer about "physical damage"........which is why my contention is that it was "thermal stress" or improperly torques bolts or something other than me simply loading wood into the thing.

And... do I have to "place" wood in this stove to avoid cracking the refractory?

 

[webbie]

I agree with Eric.....that it just happens. I don't think placing the wood or dropping it makes too much of a difference. It could be stresses or air/moisture pockets inside the refractory causing the cracks.

 

[swestall]

My vote is with Craig's recommendation: take the refractory and stash it, you will need it at some point. When you do you will be glad you have it...
DT: get one too....

 

[90 Degree Elbow]

I would think that the VC dealer would need it back to get the Credit from CFM. In the past that was their practice.

 

[cmcramer]

With a real clean stove and a real bright light, it looks to me like it's only the "Refractory Lower" that's cracked: no other part that
I can see is cracked. And it's cracked all the way through, that's for sure. CFM Tech discussed with me and agreed with this. He said it was very unlikely any other refractory was cracked. CFM said to order replacement part through Dealer who will also install it.....and Dealer will bill CFM. That's what I wanted to hear.

I called Dealer. Dealer says "Will do. But I've never done one of the refractory replacements. We'll figure it out. Call me in a week to see if part is in."

Can't ask for more than that. I'm inclined to take a new, installed part when it's made available. I also asked CFM Tech what caused the crack.....and he said he couldn't say for sure. End of conversation.

I keep you posted how replacement goes.

 

[cmcramer]

Update: VC Dealer repair guy unbolts gasketed top ( handy!) , unbolts damper assembly, unbolts side refractory panels for a little more working room and removes damper assembly. Two more bolts and the cracked refractory lifts out easily - in 2 pieces! Cracked clear through its 2.25 inches. Drop in replacement, bolts the thing back together. First time for me AND repair guy. Two hours start to finish, with broken bolt and floppy gasketing material accountiing for 45 minutes of that time. No charge. I learned a lot, and could do it myself next time.....I think.

I learned:
1) Have stove cement on hand to fix gasket material firmly back in proper place so re-assemble goes easier.
2) Be prepared for a broken bolt or two - and this on just a 1 year old stove
3) Using anti-sieze goo may make my job next time easier (how long does that stuff last?)
4) According to Repair Guy, don't expect VC to continue to fix cracked Refractory - parts AND labor - for 'lifetime' of stove, despite the warranty's language. More common is a compromise of free part - you put it in.

Mystery Questions:

1) The "Fountain Assembly" directly behind the cracked Refractory was ALSO Cracked! This piece is obviously some type of light weight insulation board, not made of refractory cement. What is it made of?

2. How the heck could insulation board crack?

VC will order new 'Fountain Assembly' piece and install. I can't ask for better service. A+

On the other hand.....my $2000 woodstove is just 58 weeks old.