chainsaw fuel

[E.Merckx]

Do you use ethanol free fuel in your saws or just go with a high octane from any gas station? Or do you buy the pre mixed stuff at big box stores?

My calculations show that buying pre mix is about the same cost as buying ethanol free and oil mix and mixing it yourself. What am I missing? I feel like if I go with anything other than the fuel at a gas station (not ethanol free) then I am paying a lot per tank, like $6. That sound right?

 

[GrumpyDad]

In short : if you have a garbage Kohler motor, massage it, talk to it, make sure it never sees weather and for the love of GOD never run it more than 5 minutes and yes for sure give it plenty of caviar and perfectly pure gas.
Otherwise dont worry about it.

The long of it:
My chainsaw and weed trimmer are the only two small engines that I never have a problem with. My chainsaw is about 8 years old as is my trimmer. Wow it's been that long! Both are Echos. Ive never done anything but add fuel when needed and it goes. I dont drain the fuel, I dont have shut off valves. The echo chainsaw sat in a shed for 2 years in the cold/heat, and I used the same gas that was in there 2 years prior. It started on the second pull, then stalled, I pushed the choke back in and started it on the first pull , let it idle for about 10 seconds then forced it awake with throttle...and within a minute was cutting down a 50' tree.

Anything that I have that has a Kohler engine in it, gives me serious issues. My wood splitter has a kohler in it. The first splitter I got was extremely hard to start and I took it back the next weekend, thankfully. The first year I had the splitter it was fine although it was harder to start than most engines. I recently took it apart, put pure gas no ethanol in it, cleaned carb and sprayed out everything with carb cleaner. Runs great now but I expect it has been sitting for a few weeks with fuel shut off and run out of gas, that it will still be hard to start next weekend.
My tractor and I hate each other. One wants to sit and collect dust, and I want it to work. Ive tried everything and cannot reliably get this engine to run.
My Snow thrower also has a god forsaken kohler in it. It is a year old. I added some seafoam, the fuel line was shut off and it was run until empty. Went to start, and it started fairly easily and ran nice. Just as I was about to shut it off it started hunting back and forth non stop. If I choke it a bit, it stops. Shrug. So now I have to monkey with that to get it running reliably. Again, more kohler junk.

I have a briggs and straton water pump that serves to pump water from a creek into my pond when we are dealing with an issue with low water, which is very rare as usually the moment I think I should add water I dont because of the trouble it takes to roll out the fire hoses. Instead, I have a firehose head on it, and have it available in case someone needs it for something or to pump out their flooded basements which happens often living near water. This lives outside, it's probably 40 years old. The only thing Ive ever done to it was change the plug. It's been run over by a tractor (long story), it's been accidently thrown away in a dump truck via a cat claw picking it up, it has been stolen and return. And once, due to flood....it was washed about 10' from the side of my shed. Yet, all it asks for is to run. Had this been a Kohler, it would have imploded then exploded then spewed toxic waste for 100 miles after the first rain drop hits it. OH and the gas is probably, 5 years old in that.

I think I learned my lesson on using chinese engines. Im done.

 

[hedge wood]

I can't say I have even priced the pre mixed at the big box stores. In my area ethanol free is about fifty cents a gallon higher that E-10 which is the common fuel around here. I run ethanol free in all my small engines and my antique tractors. I do raise corn for part of my living. I will just keep mixing my own for the saws.

 

[bigealta]

I've seen reviews by i think chickmachanic that showed some of those canned fuels at the big box stores are problematic. I use regular gas with a stabilizer. But the premix i use also has stabilizers in it too.

 

[ericm979]

Ethanol gets blamed for a lot of engine problems that it does not cause. The primary real problem with ethanol in gas is phase separation. That requires both significant water in the fuel and low temperatures. That's not a problem here where the lows in winter aren't much below freezing, but could be a problem in new england.

E0 gas can go stale too. Back before they put ethanol or MTBE in gas I cleaned out a lot of motorcycle carbs that had been sitting with fuel in them and gotten gummed up. Ethanol did damage some fuel system parts when it was first introduced but that was a long time ago and manufacturers addressed it. I have not seen a damaged fuel system due to ethanol.

Here the closest station with E0 is an hour away and it's a couple dollars more per gallon than E10. It's not worth it. I have been using E10 for 20+ years and had no problem with it. Even on equipment that sits all winter with gas in it. But if E0 was convenient and not much more expensive, I'd use it.

I use fuel stabilizer in all my small equipment fuel, which probably helps. But I didn't for a long time and the same equipment that sits all winter or all summer still worked fine. If a saw is going to be sitting for a long time I drain the gas out of it and run that in the log splitter or lawn tractor.

Canned fuel is formulated to last longer than the pump stuff, which is good, but it also has mystery oil in it. Coming from a motorcycling background I want to run my preferred high quality synthetic oil. So mixing it myself is the way to go. The canned fuel is a lot more expensive which is also a consideration if you're running your saws or whatever a lot.

 

[E.Merckx]

Thanks all. I have 4 saws but my primaries are the Echo CS590 and 490, and I use them fairly often. I'll probably do E10 high octane with Echo engine oil and sta-bil mixed in. And will go with low volume so it stays fresh. Just measn I'll need to get gas more often. I typically only stop when my saw runs dry so don't usually leave it with any fuel anyway.

 

[Garbanzo62]

The last time I was in Home Depot, the pre-mixed ethanol free fuel was $27 for 110 ozs. That is almost $30 a Gallon. A $9 bottle of fuel stabilizer treats 40 gallons. I go with that.

 

[Ashful]

My best and most expensive saws are 30'ish years old now, and I've had no trouble whatsoever running them on E10 for as long as it's been the standard in our area. I do drain the tanks and run them dry, whenever I know I won't be using them awhile, usually in spring since they sit in a hot shed over summer. I also run E10 in my string trimmer, hand-held blower, and other OPE. Never any trouble, or put otherwise, nothing I could blame on E10.

Obviously, it goes without saying, to use a good 2-stroke oil containing stabilizer designed for compatibility with E10. I've been running the Stihl oil the last several years, convenient 2.6 fl.oz. bottles designed for 50:1 when combined with 1 gallon of gas, but I'd have no concern with Echo brand either (assuming it's labeled for use with E10).

Also, don't mix up more than you can use in a few short weeks. I use more than most I know, but I'm still only mixing 1 gallon at a time, so it stays fresh.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

the echo red armor is a higher end mix tuat has a Stabilizer in it..

 

[peakbagger]

Sorry to break up E10 love in but I and others all have experienced far more carb issues with seasonal power equipment using E-10. Most folks I know including myself intentionally run out saws dry before packing them away for awhile so E-10 is less of an issue. Note I think the new electronic tuned saws should not be run out of gas but since I do not own one read the directions. There are several folks in the area that pick up good used OPE from the trash and rebuild them and the ones I have talked to are very insistent that E-10 keeps them in business, they have sources for carb kits for some but not all engines so they pick through what they have and rebuild the carbs for the stuff that is in demand. There was a retired guy one town over that specialized in John Deere lawn tractors and he got them for cheap in the spring when they would not start and then would clean out the fuel system and the carbs and resell them.

 

[ericm979]

When I was in high school and part of college I made money buying motorcycles that people had parked in their garage for years and were no longer running, fixing them up and selling them. Most of them had gummed up carbs from fuel sitting in them. This was in the '70s well before ethanol, or MTBE for that matter. I think a lot of people now blame ethanol for gummed up carbs and don't know that gas did that before ethanol.

When I get a 5 gallon can of gas to use for saw fuel I pump out of the 91 octane pump. All we have here are blender pumps, which means that the first gallon or so is whatever the last user pumped. My saws all call for 89 octane. Pumping the 91 ensures that it's at least 89. Two stroke detonation happens at high speed under load. Unlike four stroke detonation, you can't hear it.

 

[Ashful]

There are several folks in the area that pick up good used OPE from the trash and rebuild them and the ones I have talked to are very insistent that E-10 keeps them in business, they have sources for carb kits for some but not all engines so they pick through what they have and rebuild the carbs for the stuff that is in demand. There was a retired guy one town over that specialized in John Deere lawn tractors and he got them for cheap in the spring when they would not start and then would clean out the fuel system and the carbs and resell them.

This was happening no less frequently, long before E10 was coming out of the pumps. I have seen that E10 is hard on the rubber lines and gaskets used on some older equipment, but it seems most newer equipment has engineered out materials sensitive to E10. Phase separation is real problem, but easily resolved by not letting old fuel sit in unused equipment for extended periods without stabilizer.

And real tractors run on Diesel.

 

[Tonty]

I use 91 octane non-ethanol from a local co-op pump for all my small engines. My brother is a Stihl gold or platinum level (I can’t remember which) certified mechanic, and that is what he recommends. Of course with that influence, I only run Stihl oil. 🙃 I don’t ever run anything dry before I park them, and I haven’t had any problems. But here’s the deal-I’ve done this for the last few years only. Before that I ran E-10. I didn’t have many issues then, either. A few fuel related issues, but nothing serious. So is it worth it? I think it’s a personal choice. For me it is worth it.

 

[ABMax24]

Keep anything greater than 10% ethanol out of 2-stroke engines, ideally go with 0% ethanol. Ethanol washes the oil out of the bearings and cylinder, 10% gives acceptable performance, over 10% does not.

I'm following a guy right now who is trying to build a modded 2-stroke snowmobile to run on E85, he's hoping to get an easy 20% bump in hp, maybe add boost and shoot for double. He's also under the full understanding that engine is going to live a short life.

Honestly if you're getting water in your ethanol gas you need to find a different gas station, water contamination if from poor fuel handling or storage practices. Or alternatively leaking equipment. All reasons to buy your fuel elsewhere.

 

[Highbeam]

I’ve always run plain old 87 octane pump fuel has ethanol and gets stabil stabilizer added since I keep 20 gallons on hand and the oldest gasoline might be a year old before I use it. From those stabilized cans I premix one gallon at a time with echo synthetic 2 stroke oil.

None of your options match.

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

In short : if you have a garbage Kohler motor, massage it, talk to it, make sure it never sees weather and for the love of GOD never run it more than 5 minutes and yes for sure give it plenty of caviar and perfectly pure gas.
Otherwise dont worry about it.

The long of it:
My chainsaw and weed trimmer are the only two small engines that I never have a problem with. My chainsaw is about 8 years old as is my trimmer. Wow it's been that long! Both are Echos. Ive never done anything but add fuel when needed and it goes. I dont drain the fuel, I dont have shut off valves. The echo chainsaw sat in a shed for 2 years in the cold/heat, and I used the same gas that was in there 2 years prior. It started on the second pull, then stalled, I pushed the choke back in and started it on the first pull , let it idle for about 10 seconds then forced it awake with throttle...and within a minute was cutting down a 50' tree.

Anything that I have that has a Kohler engine in it, gives me serious issues. My wood splitter has a kohler in it. The first splitter I got was extremely hard to start and I took it back the next weekend, thankfully. The first year I had the splitter it was fine although it was harder to start than most engines. I recently took it apart, put pure gas no ethanol in it, cleaned carb and sprayed out everything with carb cleaner. Runs great now but I expect it has been sitting for a few weeks with fuel shut off and run out of gas, that it will still be hard to start next weekend.
My tractor and I hate each other. One wants to sit and collect dust, and I want it to work. Ive tried everything and cannot reliably get this engine to run.
My Snow thrower also has a god forsaken kohler in it. It is a year old. I added some seafoam, the fuel line was shut off and it was run until empty. Went to start, and it started fairly easily and ran nice. Just as I was about to shut it off it started hunting back and forth non stop. If I choke it a bit, it stops. Shrug. So now I have to monkey with that to get it running reliably. Again, more kohler junk.

I have a briggs and straton water pump that serves to pump water from a creek into my pond when we are dealing with an issue with low water, which is very rare as usually the moment I think I should add water I dont because of the trouble it takes to roll out the fire hoses. Instead, I have a firehose head on it, and have it available in case someone needs it for something or to pump out their flooded basements which happens often living near water. This lives outside, it's probably 40 years old. The only thing Ive ever done to it was change the plug. It's been run over by a tractor (long story), it's been accidently thrown away in a dump truck via a cat claw picking it up, it has been stolen and return. And once, due to flood....it was washed about 10' from the side of my shed. Yet, all it asks for is to run. Had this been a Kohler, it would have imploded then exploded then spewed toxic waste for 100 miles after the first rain drop hits it. OH and the gas is probably, 5 years old in that.

I think I learned my lesson on using chinese engines. Im done.

You use Seafoam in your fuel system

 

[Highbeam]

You use Seafoam in your fuel system

The directions on the can instruct you to add it to all kinds of places. Even to engine oil as an engine "flush" to clean sludge.

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

I find that after adding it to the fuel system I find starting not a problem ..cleans out that gunky gel stuff ..

 

[DodgyNomad]

ethanol free premium with echo red armor. Keeps them very happy.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I've not had an issue with pump gas but I can go through it quick enough before it goes bad.

I'll run 100LL AVGAS at $6.50 gallon with Amsoil Dominator sometimes as well. With AVGAS I've had engines sit for years without use and fired right up. Amsoil Sabre does have fuel stabilizers and is more geared towards small engines but I use Dominator in my ultralight so I already have 6 gallons mixed at a time.

I dont believe in running things dry. Two stroke you end up running with limited lubrication and even 4 strokes I think it promotes buildup in if frequently ran dry. If anything top off with AVGAS, run it enough to get it in the carb and shut it off.

What is funny is that people swear off ethanol but use Sea Foam which does contain alcohol.

 

[peakbagger]

Avgas is a straight distillate, will last a long time without gumming up plus its got a some lead in it which keeps the octane up. The government has tried phasing it out for years but no one wants to foot the bill to recertify a whole lot of aircraft engines.

 

[farmwithjunk]

Avgas is a straight distillate, will last a long time without gumming up plus its got a some lead in it which keeps the octane up. The government has tried phasing it out for years but no one wants to foot the bill to recertify a whole lot of aircraft engines.

I should note that I do run a lead scavenging agent as well (Decalin RunUp) so that the lead oxide does not build up.

Amazing something fire right up after sitting for 5 years with AVGAS. Ethanol free pump gas wont do that.

AVGAS doesn't have that rank smell that soaks into your skin and evaporates off quickly when spilled. I can't stand the smell of pump gas soaking into my skin with the tiniest of spills. I buy a years worth at a time and store it in 6 gallon race cans.

 

[blades]

The problem ethanol laced fuel when it sits is evaporation of the ethnol. It leaves a residue behind, that is what gums things up. some of the carb cleaners won't even phase that residue. i have one unit not run very often i do not even attemp to start it with out first pulling the selinoid out for the fuel shut off and cleaning it - it is always jammed up by the ethanol.

 

[Nate R]

My Snow thrower also has a kohler in it. It is a year old.

Really? What brand is the snow thrower?

 

[Ashhole]

I should note that I do run a lead scavenging agent as well (Decalin RunUp) so that the lead oxide does not build up.

Amazing something fire right up after sitting for 5 years with AVGAS. Ethanol free pump gas wont do that.

AVGAS doesn't have that rank smell that soaks into your skin and evaporates off quickly when spilled. I can't stand the smell of pump gas soaking into my skin with the tiniest of spills. I buy a years worth at a time and store it in 6 gallon race cans.

So where would you purchase AVgas outside of an airport?