chase construction

[stangds]

Can I get some detailed information for what chase requirements are?

The lower 8 feet or so of my chase are insulated, but there is no firebreak or anything in the chase. Above 8 feet, there is nothing except 2x4s with siding nailed directly to them.

What do I need to do to this to make it safe?

The county where I live is treating my install as an appliance change, so there are no permits or inspections needed. I talked to my insurance company about my installation, and they didn't care much either. I was told as long as I followed my inserts manufacturing instructions, I was OK. The instructions aren't very demanding, and I want to make my installation as safe as possible.

I have a Napoleon NZ26 zero clearance fireplace and duraplus chimney pipe (the triple wall, insulated stuff).

thanks.

 

[Shane]

Chase construction is often outlined in the install manual. Alot of times though they want it insulated atleast up to the firestop level which is usually the first floor level (so your 8ft. mark would make sense). From there up insulation alot of times is optional but highly recommended if your in a cold climate. The framing should meet applicable codes (can't help much there since I'm not a framer) One red flag that you sent up though is that the siding is nailed directly to the 2x4's. I'm not 100% on this but I think there should be sheeting to add support with a vapor barrier (tyvek) then the siding.

 

[Hogwildz]

Chase construction is often outlined in the install manual. Alot of times though they want it insulated atleast up to the firestop level which is usually the first floor level (so your 8ft. mark would make sense). From there up insulation alot of times is optional but highly recommended if your in a cold climate. The framing should meet applicable codes (can't help much there since I'm not a framer) One red flag that you sent up though is that the siding is nailed directly to the 2x4's. I'm not 100% on this but I think there should be sheeting to add support with a vapor barrier (tyvek) then the siding.

Newer homes almost always have a tyvek or equivalent house wrap. Older homes even have tar paper moisture barrier behind siding, less expensive alternative. Depends on how old the home is and who installed the siding. Ive seen many times the siding just nailed over the sheathing. What makes me laugh is when I see vinyl siding installed over foil faced insulation board. The ultra violet rays from the sun pass through the vinyl, heat up the foil face, then heat the vinyl siding from behind. Making the siding warp, buckle & bow. This goes away as the sun goes down and air cools. But looks real bad during the day. Proper is regular ol foam insulation with NO foil! No vapor barrier is not too terrible a thing if the siding is on non living space walls, etc. There temp behind wall will be same as outside so no real need for insulation, and can get away with no vapor barrier. After all if its not living space on other side of wall, there is no extreme temp differences, thus not a real concern for condensation, etc. The barrier does help deter insect infestation though. bare wood behind is more open to carpenter ants etc. Not always a certain thing to happen but possible. Seen that a few times also. I just noticed your part on no sheathing, that is a builders way to cut cost & labor. It is a shortcut, and I would personally pull the siding off and put some exterior grade plywood or pre on there. Not much support for siding with just 2x4's. While yer at it, by a roll of 30lb roofing felt and cover the sheathing with that, then re-side overtop. I would insulate the chimney pipe though, or use pre insualted double wall. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Shane]

He has Duraplus which is air cooled. You don't want to wrap insulation around a chimney the airspace must be maintained, that's why I recommended insulating the chase walls all the way up, to keep the chimney warm not out of concern for cold air infiltration to the living space.

 

[recppd]

The lower 8 feet or so of my chase are insulated, but there is no firebreak or anything in the chase.

Are you saying that if you took off your chase cap that you could look down and see the top of your firebox? I know when I installed my Heatilator I did so with cement board all around the inside walls and ceiling, at about the 6' mark. It was also insulated on all three exterior walls AND on top of the ceiling. The double wall chimney then ran down through that ceiling cement board, with proper clearances to surrounding 2x4 framing, and was then sealed with fireproof chaulk. Basically I made an enclosed, insulated, box for the firebox to be installed into. The remaining chase up to the cap was uninsulated.

 

[stangds]

the pipe has the inner wall, then 1/2" of insulation, then another wall, then an inch airspace, and the third wall.

yes, you can see the top of the fireplace from the top of the chase.

 

[Hogwildz]

He has Duraplus which is air cooled. You don't want to wrap insulation around a chimney the airspace must be maintained, that's why I recommended insulating the chase walls all the way up, to keep the chimney warm not out of concern for cold air infiltration to the living space.

Ah my mistake, I didn't see that he had Duraplus, then you are right, no insulation around the piping needed. He also needs no insulation to keep the chimney warm, as Duraplus is triple wall system.
As per their site:
1. A DuraPlus chimney STAYS COOL ON THE OUTSIDE at all times, to protect the building during normal stove operation.

2. IT STAYS HOT ON THE INSIDE to discourage the deposit of creosote, while providing the correct draft for stove performance.

3. If a red hot creosote fire does erupt, the patented DuraPlus FIRESAFE DESIGN serves to protect both the chimney and the building.

* Two layers of insulation (ceramic blanket plus air space) keep the DuraPlus cool outside to protect the building, and hot inside to boost stove efficiency during normal stove operation.

Unless I have misunderstood you, then my apologies.

 

[recppd]

I would definately frame a chimney and insulate above your firebox to keep the cold air out.

 

[Hogwildz]

the pipe has the inner wall, then 1/2" of insulation, then another wall, then an inch airspace, and the third wall.

yes, you can see the top of the fireplace from the top of the chase.

If there was no sheathing on the upper 1/2 of that outside wall, I myself would put some on. Thats just me. I would also think there should be a firestop and you should not be able to see the top of the fireplace. Sounds like alot of heat loss to me, as well as one flaming chase if it for whatever reason caught up. I don't know code on chases as far as fire stops. I would imagine there should be one between floors to slow spread of fire from one story to the next. Sounds like a question for Elk to me.
Put some sheathing on that top 1/2. You already have the vinyl off, can't get any easier.

 

[stangds]

yeah, that's what I'm thinking, I just need to figure out the best way to do it.

I just ordered a copy of NFPA 211, i'm hoping that gives me some information that's worthwhile.

 

[Shane]

From years of experience with Duraplus and chimneys in general, it is highly recomended to insulate the chase to keep the chimney warmer. While the Duraplus (or any multitude of air cooled chimneys) does work in an uninsulated chase it works better the warmer you keep it.

It looks like you got the spiffy new all stainless stuff. That set you back a penny or two.

 

[stangds]

easy come, easy go....

I'm living on ramen noodles until I can recoupe the cost of this stuff!

thank you for the input.

 

[elkimmeg]

Do you want the letter of the code or what I would do the bottom 8" is considered living space untill it is fire stopped Therfore it should be insulated and have 1 hour fire protection meaning 5/8" fire code sheetrock on the interior of that chase up to the fire block above the fire block needs to be insulated not the walls but the same insulation requirement as your ceilings What passes code many use dura rock to seal the chimney for the fire block then place insulation on the dura rock. the other way is to fire code the entire chimney and insulate it
there are two ways to do it Also against the inside wood sheathing in below the fire block requires one hour protection

Non code issue I would never accept that chimney with out sheathing attached to the framing studs sheathing has x strenght siding is no substitute for strenght. I know I just spent more of your money. But it pays to do things right the first time, Then have to deal with half a** the rest of your time in that home

I( saving you from reading the NFPA211 it requires the one hour fire protection

 

[stangds]

Ok, why would strength be needed on the chase?

i'll add in a durock firebreak at the top of the insulated area.

it will take some "creativity" to get the chase sheathed without having to completely redo the siding on it.

Thank you for all of the input.

 

[elkimmeg]

Chances are your inspectors are not versed on NFPA211 and chase requirements ,get it insulated and fire stopped, then sheathed.

 

[stangds]

thanks for your input, i'll get it fixed up.

 

[Roospike]

What the ?

No long drawn out debate ?
No pulling hair ?
No argument over code ?
No kicking and screaming ?
No name calling ?

Questions were asked ...
Questions were answered...
Code was stated ...
The issues are going to be fixed.....

Damn , Whats this forum coming to ?

 

[Hogwildz]

What the ?

No long drawn out debate ?
No pulling hair ?
No argument over code ?
No kicking and screaming ?
No name calling ?

Questions were asked ...
Questions were answered...
Code was stated ...
The issues are going to be fixed.....

Damn , Whats this forum coming to ?

Put another log on the bar b