Check Point at state line

[Beer Belly]

I heard for Labor Day Weekend, Mass. State Troopers had a check point at the Ct / Mass border checking campers for firewood entering the state. I usually have my bed cover closed, I would have the right to refuse inspecting the inside of my truck bed without a search warrant, wouldn't I ??....and they would have no right to detain me, as I have not committed a crime requiring a search.....I know that would likely cause me some heartache....but it is my right, no ??

 

[Chimney Smoke]

Most states have some sort of consent law regarding driving. If you refuse they can use that as reason to detain you. Kind of like a sobriety checkpoint. Everyone has to stop and if you try to run they come after you. I don't think you'd win in that situation.

 

[Beer Belly]

Most states have some sort of consent law regarding driving. If you refuse they can use that as reason to detain you. Kind of like a sobriety checkpoint. Everyone has to stop and if you try to run they come after you. I don't think you'd win in that situation.

I thought you can only be detained if you had committed a crime......and simply because I refuse to a search without a warrant, would be grounds for performing a search under suspicion of something to hide ???....then what is the purpose of the Search Warrant ?. Just trying to figure out where privacy laws draw the line.....I've heard of people who refuse to consent to a search, and then asked if they are being detained, and have been allowed to leave.....how true it is, I dunno ?.

 

[Z33]

As far as I know the 4th Amendment still exists in Connecticut.

You could absolutely refuse the search. That doesn't mean that they may not fabricate another reason to search your vehicle.

 

[Z33]

Most states have some sort of consent law regarding driving. If you refuse they can use that as reason to detain you. Kind of like a sobriety checkpoint. Everyone has to stop and if you try to run they come after you. I don't think you'd win in that situation.

This is a completely different subject. The supreme court has ruled that a DUI check point does not violate your rights and this stop does not include a search of your vehicle or persons with out additional Reasonable Articulate Suspicion (RAS). They have not made the same ruling regarding firewood search and seizure.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I think they would have to have suspicion to search. This is analogous to the immigration checkpoints that are not at the border (you may have seen the videos of people refusing to answer questions).

All that said- I'm a proponent of keeping people from moving potentially infected firewood, just not a fan of unwarranted search etc.

 

[Highbeam]

As a regular, educated, citizen I expect that if I refused to allow them to search that I would be detained as the "refusal" is all the cause they need. Certainly not worth the beating.

 

[chrispr1]

Unbelievable. Is this the biggest issue that the CSP has to worry about? This progressive dump gets worse everyday. How were they pulling people over? You have every right to refuse, just like in a sobriety checkpoint. Even in CT, you are a Citizen, not a subject.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Pretty sure they can not search. It was probably just more of an "awareness" stop on behalf of the Mass boys in blue. Even if you get stopped at a check point for a DUI and you get arrested, they still can not search, however, when they tow your vehicle and impound it they will "inventory" the vehicle. While doing their inventory IF they find anything illegal, they must stop the inventory, and get a warrant to change it to a "search" of the vehicle. Not speaking from personal experience, just know a guy who's a prosecutor for a local PD.

Last time they had the border police on I-93 in Thornton NH (about 60 miles south of the border) I just looked at the guy and said, "Really?" he didn't even reply, just waved me through.... (guess it was the lack of a french accent?)

 

[Beer Belly]

I think they would have to have suspicion to search. This is analogous to the immigration checkpoints that are not at the border (you may have seen the videos of people refusing to answer questions).

All that said- I'm a proponent of keeping people from moving potentially infected firewood, just not a fan of unwarranted search etc.

The prices of firewood at the campgrounds equal somewhere around a couple of thousand dollars a cord.....not that I'm buying a cord, but at $7 a pop, for wood that burns for about 1/2 hour, and that's if it's seasoned (not likely) is a little crazy....so yes, I bring wood across state lines....goes from the bed of my truck, right into the fire, last thing I need is a check point. Wonder how they handle those who are carrying ???....and only stopping those towing a camper ??

 

[BrotherBart]

Call the Forestry Department. They are stopping people and asking them if they have firewood. Not searching their vehicles. Many people don't know what the EAB is doing and that they should not bring wood in from out of state.

More Internet hysteria.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

Did this whole situation actually even happen or is it just speculation?

Wonder how they handle those who are carrying ???

Better hope they have reciprocity between states or permits in each state.

 

[BrotherBart]

Did this whole situation actually even happen or is it just speculation?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08...spread-of-emerald-ash-borer-through-firewood/

 

[jeff_t]

We've had beech bark disease in Michigan for a few years now. First found around a couple of popular state park campgrounds, and brought with firewood from other areas. Likely Ontario, from what I read.

The first I saw EAB in Ohio that was very far from the Michigan border, was near the very popular state park campground at Hocking Hills.

That's how invasive species invade-with help from the unknowing. They don't decide it's just time to move a few thousand miles.

 

[BrotherBart]

Must be something new, eh?

Jun 2, 2005 - The Mackinac Bridge is a new checkpoint site for hardwood or livestock coming into the Upper Peninsula, as state officials try to stop the spread ...

Sep 3, 2004 - By John Seewer The Associated Press. SYLVANIA - State highway patrol troopers stopped cars and campers at checkpoints Thursday along the Ohio-Michigan state line. They weren't looking for drunken drivers or drugs - just firewood.

 

[Beer Belly]

Wonder if it makes a difference if I'm carrying seasoned Oak, Maple or anything else other than Ash.....and it has no tell tale signs of bugs ?. I understand the concern, but the wood does not sit on the ground, but goes from the bed, to the fire.....and I know some will say, the EAB could crawl out of the bed on it's own, but the EAB could then also be in the empty bed just from carrying the scrounged wood to my yard.

 

[JustWood]

Don't know the legality of the search but when EAB first hit here the popo were concentrating on vehicles with plates from 1 or more states away. They did enforce more so on holiday weekends and near large campgrounds.
I did hear of wood confiscation.
As a vendor the USDA harassed me relentlessLEE for about 6 months with regulation and I literalLEE had to get angry with them to get my point across that the "50 mile rule" didn't apply to me because I don't transport more than 30 to begin with. The state/county line rule is a joke. My yard is 1/2 mile from 3 county lines, a state line and 3 miles from a state line inversion.
Most police with common sense aren't going to make a big deal of this. The USDA on the other hand will.

 

[Beer Belly]

Don't know the legality of the search but when EAB first hit here the popo were concentrating on vehicles with plates from 1 or more states away. They did enforce more so on holiday weekends and near large campgrounds.
I did hear of wood confiscation.

I wonder if I had time to park right there at the check point, I could help them move some of that confiscated wood to keep it in Connecticut.....easiest scrounge going

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Seems like if you are transporting camp fire wood in small quantities you could build a small kiln and make it completely legal transport.
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WoodDrying/wood_kiln.htm

 

[firefighterjake]

I wonder if I had time to park right there at the check point, I could help them move some of that confiscated wood to keep it in Connecticut.....easiest scrounge going

A few years back some agency in Maine was supposedly stopping folks coming into the state with camp wood and trading them to keep the outta state wood at the bordah . . . often wondered whatever happened to that wood stash.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

The prices of firewood at the campgrounds equal somewhere around a couple of thousand dollars a cord.....not that I'm buying a cord, but at $7 a pop, for wood that burns for about 1/2 hour, and that's if it's seasoned (not likely) is a little crazy....so yes, I bring wood across state lines....goes from the bed of my truck, right into the fire, last thing I need is a check point. Wonder how they handle those who are carrying ???....and only stopping those towing a camper ??

Ya, it's worth saving a few bucks. Should probably allow Liberian flights in unchecked too.

 

[peakbagger]

A DIY wood kiln would most likely not pass muster as I expect there would be a need for certification that the wood was brought up to a certain temperature and held for a certain period of time. Not likely with a solar kiln.

I do remember many comments and complaints during various ALB responses that the USDA has fairly broad reaching powers to prevent the spread of pests. I think it comes down to they can do anything they need to to stop the spread including cutting down trees on private property.

I was looking at camp lot on off a logging road that skirts the ME/NH border. I lot was in Maine but I was in NH and had to drive across the state line once or twice to get to the lot. I was kind of curious how I actually bring wood to the camp.

Of course over the years I have split various logs that looked clean and hit a pocket with grubs into it. My understanding of ALB is that at some point in the life cycle there is no sign of them infesting the wood from the outside of the log, They start out small and grow until they chew their way out.

I think the wood from the worcester ALB infestation was burned by a local trash to energy plant.

 

[Beer Belly]

Ya, it's worth saving a few bucks. Should probably allow Liberian flights in unchecked too.

Now thats a whole different ballgame right there

 

[bholler]

I absolulty dont agree with unwarranted searches and i would refuse it as well. But transporting fire wood over allot of distance especially from and infected area is increadibly irresponsible and ignorant and should never be done. Stuff like that is what caused these problems to begin with

 

[BrotherBart]

If you are going camping, wrap the stuff in little Saran Wrap bundles and print store labels on your laser printer and put them under the wrap like at 7-11.

"MOE"S KILN DRIED FIREWOOD"