I am going to install a wood burning furnace in the basement. I have an attached garage. Would it be OK to run the stovepipe to the wall then through a thimble out to the garage, and run triple wall up the wall in the garage, then out the roof of the garage?
Chimeny question
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Although you should try to avoid wall pass throughs like that but I can't really see a code reason why you wouldn't be able to do it. Also from a common sense perspective I can't see why not either?
Unless....... you might not be allowed to put holes in the wall between garage and house because it is considered a fire barrier. That would be my only guess.
Unless....... you might not be allowed to put holes in the wall between garage and house because it is considered a fire barrier. That would be my only guess.
My guess was based on the fact that wood stoves arnt allowed in garages and that if you pass through a wall or a ceiling into another habital space ( say 2nd floor or closet ) it has to be a chase. Perhaps being the stove is not in the garage its ok. ELK!
Yes a chase is just a wall around the pipe usually a min of 2" away from the outside of the pipe ( if its class A ) from floor to ceiling. Youll need a ceiling support box at the ceiling if you can even run the pipe there. Wait for Elks direction, hes the code guru.
I dont see why not. A chase that is completely shut off/sealed from the garage via 5/8" fire rated sheetrock should be ok. Check with your local inspector too just to make sure.
coppermouse said:
Given that you should be pulling a permit, and if you do, will have to get the blessing of the local inspector (AHJ) I would talk to your local inspectors to see what they will want. Elk is definitely knowlegable on codes, but the local AHJ is the one you have to please, if they disagree with Elk, they win...
That said, I would think that it was OK as long as you use a safe pass-through construction. They might also insist that you enclose the pipe in a chase made to the same fire resistance specs as the wall between the house and the garage, and / or also insist that the pipe be protected from errant autos and other impacts.
Gooserider
coppermouse said:
Is part of the "country" within the Boarders of USA.. where all states have adopted the International code body?
Or I get it !! You want people here to help you make an illegal non permitted installation, threw a one hour fire wall ,locating a chimney in a hazardousness location, such as a garage?
No I do not want to make an illegal non permit installation, I am a bit frustrated, I have called all of my county offices to find out about this and no one knows anything about a permit so that is why I came here. If you can tell me who would have jurisdiction over getting a permit, I would contact them. That is why I have been asking questions on here so the installation would be to code
Sound like you have gotten the run around enough Here are the issues
the integrity of the fire wall must be preserved
What can be done is run connector pipe if not tha long a length with few bends to the proper connection box of the fire wall
From th inside of that fire wall connection box class A chimney in required to complete the chimney It would be nice to use a clean out tee
for the transition upward for you chimney run, but Cleanouts can't be located in a garage so that is not an option
To restore the fire protection the pipe in the garage must be enclosed with in a one hour protection chase and keep clearance to combustibles usually 2"
If one were to use metal studs and 5/8" fire code sheet rock you could reduce the dementions of the chase instead of using wood studs
Perhaps you still could install a tee clean out box if it is within the chace. Set it up to remove a piece of 5/8" sheetrock on the bottom
could be as simple as removing 4 drywall screws to get access to the clean out cover
the integrity of the fire wall must be preserved
What can be done is run connector pipe if not tha long a length with few bends to the proper connection box of the fire wall
From th inside of that fire wall connection box class A chimney in required to complete the chimney It would be nice to use a clean out tee
for the transition upward for you chimney run, but Cleanouts can't be located in a garage so that is not an option
To restore the fire protection the pipe in the garage must be enclosed with in a one hour protection chase and keep clearance to combustibles usually 2"
If one were to use metal studs and 5/8" fire code sheet rock you could reduce the dementions of the chase instead of using wood studs
Perhaps you still could install a tee clean out box if it is within the chace. Set it up to remove a piece of 5/8" sheetrock on the bottom
could be as simple as removing 4 drywall screws to get access to the clean out cover
I didn't see where anyone said it is not a legal installation - I have seen many oil furnances and fireplace chimneys located in garages while the appliance was inside the basement or living room.
Elk, did I miss something....or did you just jump on the dude before you explained why a class A chimney (with firestops) cannot penetrate a basement wall.
Please explain - I have seen dozens of chimneys located in garages....has that not become verboten?
From my experience, there would be no problem locating a chimney in a garage - I have done it many times (permitted), for instance when a prefab was installed in the living room and bumped out. We did always have to box in the chimney so that things in the garage could not rest against it, etc.
From a common sense perspective, can someone explain to me how fire is going to jump from the garage (for instance) back through a hole in the foundation which is firestopped? Or, how it can jump from the basement through the hole the other way into the garage? maybe I am missing something?
Copper, since you cannot get in touch with the local officials, let me suggest two things:
1. Have a certified installer look at it...or at least see the plan
(broken link removed to http://www.nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-4.html)
and
2. Call the tech dept of a major chimney maker (or PM "Metal" here.....) and ask if this seems right.
All of this info assumes your basement ceiling is at a higher level than your garage floor, so that you can get the pipe through the wall and be above the garage floor level. If not, all bets are off (you can't do it for sure).....
tech support for metalbestos, for instance:
Karen Marchand
Selkirk Corporation
State Route 93 N. & Sutton Road
Po Box 631
Logan, OH 43138
740.385.5666 Ext. 2212 - Voice
740.385.2483 - Fax
[email protected]
Elk, did I miss something....or did you just jump on the dude before you explained why a class A chimney (with firestops) cannot penetrate a basement wall.
Please explain - I have seen dozens of chimneys located in garages....has that not become verboten?
From my experience, there would be no problem locating a chimney in a garage - I have done it many times (permitted), for instance when a prefab was installed in the living room and bumped out. We did always have to box in the chimney so that things in the garage could not rest against it, etc.
From a common sense perspective, can someone explain to me how fire is going to jump from the garage (for instance) back through a hole in the foundation which is firestopped? Or, how it can jump from the basement through the hole the other way into the garage? maybe I am missing something?
Copper, since you cannot get in touch with the local officials, let me suggest two things:
1. Have a certified installer look at it...or at least see the plan
(broken link removed to http://www.nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-4.html)
and
2. Call the tech dept of a major chimney maker (or PM "Metal" here.....) and ask if this seems right.
All of this info assumes your basement ceiling is at a higher level than your garage floor, so that you can get the pipe through the wall and be above the garage floor level. If not, all bets are off (you can't do it for sure).....
tech support for metalbestos, for instance:
Karen Marchand
Selkirk Corporation
State Route 93 N. & Sutton Road
Po Box 631
Logan, OH 43138
740.385.5666 Ext. 2212 - Voice
740.385.2483 - Fax
[email protected]
Thanks for the info guys I appreciate it. The ceiling is above the garage floor but only by the height of a floor joist (2x10 I think) and maybe 2 courses of cinder block. is that big enough to come through? Can I go through the floor joist or do I have to make a hole in the cinder block?
I know it would be preferable to run it in the house, but then I am going through 2 stories and who knows what (plumbing etc..).
Also the garage roof is one floor lower than the house roof and the chimney will come out like 5-7 feet from the side of the house. I assume I will have to run the chimney above the roof of the house?
I know it would be preferable to run it in the house, but then I am going through 2 stories and who knows what (plumbing etc..).
Also the garage roof is one floor lower than the house roof and the chimney will come out like 5-7 feet from the side of the house. I assume I will have to run the chimney above the roof of the house?
If you are that close to the house you will have to go up untill you are 2' above anything within 10'
Thats gonna be pricey.
Thats gonna be pricey.
It sounds possible, but there are a few issues you should know and address. It is also possible that you can cut out a bit of the garage slab and form a "well" where the chimney may be.
Actually, another option is to get prices for a masonry chimney in the same location - they would also cut out the slab and dig a well for the chimney foundation and wall pass-through.
The main issues with the metal chimneys - and, again, these should be run by a certified installer or the chimney manufacturer....
1. the chimney will be close to the ceiling in the basement - where it runs horizontal. The connector pipe from your furnace cannot get this close to joists - solution is probably to run a 30 degree el down from the insulated chimney, maybe another short piece of class A and then use either/or double wall interior pipe or heat shields on the "connector" to the furnace.
2. Cleaning out the chimney......this is usually done with a cap on the bottom of the tee located, in your case, in the garage. This will be impossible without a "well" there.......it is possible other options may be allowed, but I am not looking at a code book or installation manual at present. In reality, this chimney could be cleaned by removing the interior pipe and reaching in and dragging the soot out (after sweeping), but that does not mean it passes muster with code. Again, if you cannot find an intelligent code official, the manufacturer and a certified specialist might be a good source of info. It helps to sketch up your proposed chimney and fax or show it to folks.
Actually, another option is to get prices for a masonry chimney in the same location - they would also cut out the slab and dig a well for the chimney foundation and wall pass-through.
The main issues with the metal chimneys - and, again, these should be run by a certified installer or the chimney manufacturer....
1. the chimney will be close to the ceiling in the basement - where it runs horizontal. The connector pipe from your furnace cannot get this close to joists - solution is probably to run a 30 degree el down from the insulated chimney, maybe another short piece of class A and then use either/or double wall interior pipe or heat shields on the "connector" to the furnace.
2. Cleaning out the chimney......this is usually done with a cap on the bottom of the tee located, in your case, in the garage. This will be impossible without a "well" there.......it is possible other options may be allowed, but I am not looking at a code book or installation manual at present. In reality, this chimney could be cleaned by removing the interior pipe and reaching in and dragging the soot out (after sweeping), but that does not mean it passes muster with code. Again, if you cannot find an intelligent code official, the manufacturer and a certified specialist might be a good source of info. It helps to sketch up your proposed chimney and fax or show it to folks.
I now understand your setup and Web comments I think I have your best and economical solution
You will have to cut out a section of your garage slab. Dig it down a couple feet Maybe as many as 4 feet pour a decent footing and construct a chimney block chimney
From the inside of your cellar a hole would be cut in the foundation for the connector pipe. If planning to use single wall pipe ,
the top of the cut out hole would be 18" below the floor joist. This would eliminate all clearance to combustibles issues
the vent pipe would now enter into that clay lined block chimney Inside the garage you could use chimney block to the roof of the garage then once it passed threw the roof
you could continue the chimney block to above the existing house by 2' For appearances one could use bricks walls once it passes threw the roof
I think a chimney block chimney may be cheaper than class A chimney or cost being close to it The fire wall issues is also solved and brick facing outside will be more pleasing and blend in with the home better than stainless steel look
If you dig deep enough you could also bore out the foundation for a clean out ash door just below the connector entrance and have an easy cleanout access.
After all the other issues think about this suggestion I think w you will agree that this solves all of them and turns into the best and easiest solution probably also cost effective
You will have to cut out a section of your garage slab. Dig it down a couple feet Maybe as many as 4 feet pour a decent footing and construct a chimney block chimney
From the inside of your cellar a hole would be cut in the foundation for the connector pipe. If planning to use single wall pipe ,
the top of the cut out hole would be 18" below the floor joist. This would eliminate all clearance to combustibles issues
the vent pipe would now enter into that clay lined block chimney Inside the garage you could use chimney block to the roof of the garage then once it passed threw the roof
you could continue the chimney block to above the existing house by 2' For appearances one could use bricks walls once it passes threw the roof
I think a chimney block chimney may be cheaper than class A chimney or cost being close to it The fire wall issues is also solved and brick facing outside will be more pleasing and blend in with the home better than stainless steel look
If you dig deep enough you could also bore out the foundation for a clean out ash door just below the connector entrance and have an easy cleanout access.
After all the other issues think about this suggestion I think w you will agree that this solves all of them and turns into the best and easiest solution probably also cost effective
Elk is right that adding up the Class A, the digging of the well, the boxing in of the Class A....and everything else - a block (modular) masonry may be your best solution, especially if you can find a mason who is reasonable.
It is a whole 'nother story how to build a correct masonry chimney....but we'll wait until you've made that decision (or not).
It is a whole 'nother story how to build a correct masonry chimney....but we'll wait until you've made that decision (or not).
You will still need a chase where you pass through the 2nd floor space and the 1st floor ( Im guessing there is 2 floors above the basement ) but nothing as eladorate as with the garage. Perhaps remove some floor in the closet and see what youd have to deal with. is the closet directly above where the stack will be?
I have some flexibility as to where I put the stack. It can be through the closet, and might be able to hit the closet on the second floor. Have to take some measurements.
As a minor tip, I've often found it's a challenge to find corresponding spots by measuring on different floors, or different rooms on the same floor - When you think you have it right, cut a long peice of straighwire from a coathanger, and use it like a drill bit to bore a hole in the floor, then look for the wire sticking through on the other end.
This is useful because the coathanger "bit" is likely not to be agressive enough to penetrate anything overly fragile, and if you aren't where you thought you were, the hole is tiny enough to be hard to notice and easy to patch.
Gooserider
This is useful because the coathanger "bit" is likely not to be agressive enough to penetrate anything overly fragile, and if you aren't where you thought you were, the hole is tiny enough to be hard to notice and easy to patch.
Gooserider
Good idea Goose,
BUT who has metal coat hangers anymore??? The last time I went looking for one in my house all I could find was plastic. I miss the good ole days.
BUT who has metal coat hangers anymore??? The last time I went looking for one in my house all I could find was plastic. I miss the good ole days.
If absolutely desperate, you can check the local dry-cleaners, but usually you can find them if you seek out their secret breeding grounds at the back of your deepest, darkest closets... :cheese:
Gooserider
Gooserider
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