Chimney dripping brown stuff on new metal roof - concerned of damage and root cause

[bens_igloo]

I'm dealing with a situation that's worrying me a lot and I'd appreciate any input that could shed some light. It's a long post.. sorry... First, I love the BK Princess for its long burn time and s low heat output, but from day one I noticed my chimney getting much dirtier than with my other stove now, or any other EPA stove I've had before.

On my Blaze King Princess, my chimney gets really dirty, especially the end-cap which is always full of big chunks of solids and also a lot of shiny creosote. I clean it regularly (2-3 times a season).

Some background:
- I have two stoves in my home, a Blaze King Princess and a Pacific Energy Summit. Both are free-standing. Both stoves were installed 3 years ago new.
- They are hooked up to a double-walled chimney, both inside and outside.
- I only burn fully seasoned wood, primarily ash and maple. I have a moisture meter and on fresh splits, everything I burn is under 17%

Comparing both stoves, I always have a lot more white/light grey smoke from my blaze king compared to my PE Summit. This occurs regardless of how hot the burn is going. From the Summit, I have zero smoke whatsoever; the only thing I see is the heat waves. On the PE I have no significant accumulation on either the Chimney or the end cap, no dripping, and no deposits on the roof. This is with burning the same wood and same burning practices.

The biggest problem is that the Blaze King chimney is dripping. I never really noticed on my brown asphalt roof, but we had a black metal roof installed ($$$$$$$) 2 months ago and it's dripping brown stuff on it. First it looks awful, and second it will surely quickly damage the roofing material. If this has happened in 2 months, I can only imagine what it will look like in 10 years.

The cat physically looks fine and glows red. I always burn with the cat in the active zone, and to try to reduce the issue I have been running it hotter but the effects are the same.

I've checked the gaskets, both on the by-pass and the door using the dollar bill test. They re good.

What could possibly be going on here? Is my catalyst bad? Am I missing something? Do I need to get rid of my BK and put a non-cat burner???

 

[begreen]

Is the same wood being burned in both stoves? Does the BK stove have a double-wall stove pipe connecting it to the chimney? How long is the connector?

 

[bens_igloo]

Hi @begreen

I am burning the same wood in both stoves. For the past few months, it has all been seasoned ash and maple cut and split by myself and dried for 2.5 years.

Both stoves have the same chimney system - double wall stove pipe inside, connected to a double walled chimney system outside. Both have been WETT certified. The interior stove pipe is probably around 10 feet long, then a few feet through my attic, and about 4 feet above the root. Total chimney length is 16 feet. I have never had any type of draft issues.

On a related note.. in the PE Summit chimney system, I have nothing but fluffy black stuff that comes right off. While on the BK princess the chimney is full of oily /chunky stuff.

 

[begreen]

That all sounds good. If you are burning 24/7 in the BK for 5-6 months/yr then it is possible the hours on the cat is >10,000K and at end of life. Performance will fall off and the cat needs to be replaced. The first replacement cat can be claimed on warranty.

 

[bens_igloo]

I am burning more or less 24/7 for 5 months a year and I've had the stove for 3 years. It is probably approaching 10k hours.

I assumed that if the cat was staying in the active zone, it continued to perform.

For sure I can see that my system is not burning nearly as cleanly as I want or need.

Are there are points that should be considered? I've seen before other members mentioning that they icicles on their BK chimney end caps.

 

[begreen]

If you are noting a marked increase in creosote accumulation that is a sign that the cat is no longer burning efficiently. Did you have this problem a year ago or during the first season of use?

You could try removing it and pickling it. Highbeam has a posting on doing this for his Princess. That may get you through the winter, but once a cat is over 10K hrs. performance diminishes.

 

[bens_igloo]

Thanks for that.

I assume this is what I`m looking for?

(broken link removed to http://www.condarcanada.com/index.php?id_product=188&controller=product&id_lang=1)

 

[begreen]

Check the BK Performance thread for the best cat replacement option. I think BK uses FireCat combustors. The first one can be claimed on warranty, so contact your dealer. Be sure to get a new gasket for the cat when replacing.

 

[bens_igloo]

I've reached out to my local dealer and waiting for some feedback!

 

[begreen]

Some tips in this thread might be helpful.

Blaze King King- excessive smoke out the door?

I've had my King for about 5 years. It seems recently that when I open the door while burning a lot of smoke comes out, even if I crack for a few seconds first. Also, it seems to be burning much more in the front than the back. The flu, stove pipe, and stove were cleaned well. I took the...

www.hearth.com

 

[Woody Stover]

I assumed that if the cat was staying in the active zone, it continued to perform.
For sure I can see that my system is not burning nearly as cleanly

Yes, if it's glowing it does continue to perform but may be doing so at a reduced level. It may be harder to light the cat on startup, and the cat may drop out sooner at the end of the burn, both of which will be sending more unburned gunk up the chimney. At three years on the cat, you are probably due for a new one. Yeah, I would go for the ceramic cat, if you run it judiciously.
Another problem you can have with the BK is when you try to run it too low; Flue temps drop too much and more creo gunk is deposited in the chimney, according to users.

 

[begreen]

Before giving up on the cat, take some compressed air as BKVP suggested and blow out the dust in the cat to see if that improves performance.

 

[kennyp2339]

@bens_igloo please follow the instructions found thin the BK manual for testing the cat to see if its holding or not, the test is easy, make a fire, set the t-stat to medium burn - about 3 o'clock, let that fire burn for an hour at that setting so its established, turn the t-stat to low, the cat probe should stay in the active zone for the rest of the burn, if the needle dips into the inactive zone then the cat has failed and its time to replace.
Just another general question, hows the weather been up there, if its been very cold you may have condensation issues and have to burn at a higher setting, but check the cat first (fyi I burn for about 5 months 24/7 and I only get about 3 years out of my cat at best)

 

[Highbeam]

@bens_igloo please follow the instructions found thin the BK manual for testing the cat to see if its holding or not, the test is easy, make a fire, set the t-stat to medium burn - about 3 o'clock, let that fire burn for an hour at that setting so its established, turn the t-stat to low, the cat probe should stay in the active zone for the rest of the burn, if the needle dips into the inactive zone then the cat has failed and its time to replace.
Just another general question, hows the weather been up there, if its been very cold you may have condensation issues and have to burn at a higher setting, but check the cat first (fyi I burn for about 5 months 24/7 and I only get about 3 years out of my cat at best)

It’s in the manual but I’ve always thought that test was a mistake. It is well known that with almost every installation you can stall a cat by setting the thermostat to full low.Even on a brand new cat, if you turn the stat too low, you will stall the cat and the meter will fall to inactive. That test tells you nothing.

A better test is to look at the exhaust during the burn. If the cat meter indicates fully active and you’re seeing smoke more than occasionally then the cat is dead. Steam is different than smoke but sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. White steam is okay. My dead cat smoke is blue.

These princess/30 box cats are not that expensive. You can buy them on amazon and swap in a few minutes. It’s worth the time to blow it clear if it’s clogged but not worth the time to vinegar boil it unless in an emergency as that only buys you a little more time. 12000 hours is the life expectancy of a cat, that’s only 2-3 years if you burn full time for heat.

 

[bens_igloo]

Hi all,

270$ (Canadian) for 2 and a bit years of use is certainly not cheap, but I suppose it is what it is.

I've done one of the tests recommended on the forum and in the manual. The results tell me the cat isn't completely dead but certainly far from effective.
1) With the stove well into the activate zone, open the bypass and look out the chimney. Lots of blue smoke.
2) Close the bypass, wait a couple of minutes, and check again. There is a lot less smoke, but still some grey/blue smoke.
3) Look over to my shoulder to the stack connected to my non-cat PE Summit burning a basically identical load, and there is nothing whatsoever coming out the chimney except heat waves.

Also I'm with you @Highbeam , I've never been able to turn the thermostat all the way down to low, even when the stove was brand new. It really seems dependent on many factors... draft, outside temps, wood load size, etc. What I can say is I used to be able to turn it down to about the 2 o'clock position all the time. Now I can only do that with a big full load on a cold day.

I'm also noticing now that I think about it that I'm consuming a lot more wood than before.

All pointing to a failed cat I'm thinking.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I do know one thing, cat or not, the deposits on your roof are condensing water vapor and soot (creosote) and if you don't address the issue, you are headed for a rocket ship flue fire. Least you have a metal roof and not shingles that will combust.

 

[Highbeam]

Hi all,

270$ (Canadian) for 2 and a bit years of use is certainly not cheap, but I suppose it is what it is.

I've done one of the tests recommended on the forum and in the manual. The results tell me the cat isn't completely dead but certainly far from effective.
1) With the stove well into the activate zone, open the bypass and look out the chimney. Lots of blue smoke.
2) Close the bypass, wait a couple of minutes, and check again. There is a lot less smoke, but still some grey/blue smoke.
3) Look over to my shoulder to the stack connected to my non-cat PE Summit burning a basically identical load, and there is nothing whatsoever coming out the chimney except heat waves.

Also I'm with you @Highbeam , I've never been able to turn the thermostat all the way down to low, even when the stove was brand new. It really seems dependent on many factors... draft, outside temps, wood load size, etc. What I can say is I used to be able to turn it down to about the 2 o'clock position all the time. Now I can only do that with a big full load on a cold day.

I'm also noticing now that I think about it that I'm consuming a lot more wood than before.

All pointing to a failed cat I'm thinking.

Your cat is dead.

“270$ (Canadian) for 2 and a bit years of use is certainly not cheap, but I suppose it is what it is.”

Tell that to the guy paying 500$ a month for electric heat. During those 12000 hours that cat saved you 2-3 cords of wood and increased your comfort significantly by allowing a steady, low, burn rate. What does 3 cords of wood cost?

I too have a noncat that burns super cleanwith a clear plume. I would be thrilled with a noncat that could burn for 24 hours on one load.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Your cat is dead.

“270$ (Canadian) for 2 and a bit years of use is certainly not cheap, but I suppose it is what it is.”

Tell that to the guy paying 500$ a month for electric heat. During those 12000 hours that cat saved you 2-3 cords of wood and increased your comfort significantly by allowing a steady, low, burn rate. What does 3 cords of wood cost?

I too have a noncat that burns super cleanwith a clear plume. I would be thrilled with a noncat that could burn for 24 hours on one load.

I cannot let my wife see that post, she loves her cats... (I don't).....lol

 

[begreen]

Your cat is dead.

“270$ (Canadian) for 2 and a bit years of use is certainly not cheap, but I suppose it is what it is.”

I'm with you Ben. It is expensive. There is also tax and maybe shipping in that cost to be added. In the past 10 yrs, I've spent nothing on cats. Highbeam, is at #3 or 4? Might make sense where electricity is expensive and one is using resistance heat, but not in our area where it is cheap and heat pumps are very efficient.

 

[bens_igloo]

Alright, so with warm temperatures today I just went up on the roof and cleaned all the area with soap and warm water. Luckily my roof has a low pitch.

After an hour of scrubbing, I would say I cleaned up 75% of the stuff on stuff. I'll have to go back up with a bristle brush and stronger cleaner (possibly degreaser) after I check with the manufacturer.

I've contacted my local dealer about getting a replacement cat. In the meantime I won't be using the stove. Yay propane.

In hindsight, had I known about the expense of a cat, I might have gone with another non-cat burner.

Either way, here's what it looks like after my efforts.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm with you Ben. It is expensive. There is also tax and maybe shipping in that cost to be added. In the past 10 yrs, I've spent nothing on cats. Highbeam, is at #3 or 4? Might make sense where electricity is expensive and one is using resistance heat, but not in our area where it is cheap and heat pumps are very efficient.

I may have failed to make the point that the wood savings more than pays for the new cats. It’s more of an inconvenience to have to order a new one every few years. Yes, those full time burners that have made the switch almost all report significant annual fuel savings. It’s not just efficiency but also the steady temperatures and long burns that really make the cat dance worth it.

I would pay twice as much for a cat that would last twice as long.

I’m on cat #4. Here’s my cat log and my last 2 dead cats. Burn months are 21,13,18. The steel cat did not last long at all. I spend 200$ for a new ceramic cat shipped. Will do it again 2022.

 

[Highbeam]

One more thought that begreen reminded me about. If, and that’s a big if, I actually had a home with low cost central heating like natural gas or a heat pump, a heavy noncat like a cast iron clad one would be totally sufficient and would likely be my next house stove. I could be a part time burner too. Unfortunately we have resistance electric heaters in each room. Cost of adding a heat pump is a lifetime of new cats.

Since upgrading our house stove from a modern noncat stone stove to the cat stove our quality of life has increased substantially as it relates to comfort and wood burning effort. It’s so much better to just load a stove once per day and be cozy.

 

[Mech e]

I really liked my cat stove, except for the black glass. My wife and I enjoy seeing the fire. The glass stays clean on our tube stove. Using a bit more wood is worth it for the ambiance to us. Tradeoffs.

 

[Tar12]

I really liked my cat stove, except for the black glass. My wife and I enjoy seeing the fire. The glass stays clean on our tube stove. Using a bit more wood is worth it for the ambiance to us. Tradeoffs.

I am almost through year 4 with my cat stove and have yet to have black glass...granted I run 12 hour cycles and it still outperforms any tube stove I have had and I enjoy the flames anytime I want...

 

[Mech e]

I am almost through year 4 with my cat stove and have yet to have black glass...granted I run 12 hour cycles and it still outperforms any tube stove I have had and I enjoy the flames anytime I want...

My cat stove experience was from quite a few years ago. Sounds like that is no longer an issue.