Chimney Liner, or New Class A Chimney?

[WriteNoob]

Had the big lift over at my house, from work, today. Was there to do some tree trimming, but while I had it, figured I'd finally go up and check out my existing chimney.

EE-EEK!

Long story short, I've got a 6 1/2" x 12"(I.D.) clay liner that's got chips, cracks, and a top edge that has literally just crumbled from freeze/thaw cycles. The question is, can I find a solid oval liner, for this, that won't break the bank, or should I just go with something like a Selkirk Supervent? I think the liner would be the easiest fix, perhaps with pour in insulation. But after the extra work to put in a metal class A chimney, I could have a straight up pipe, into the chimney, as opposed to a traditional stove pipe with the bend to get it into the existing (now lined) masonry unit. The metal chimney would entail a chase, as it would pass through two floors, etc.



The front corner on the left of the image is the corner of the existing chimney. If you look at the upper left, you can just see the old flue, now cemented in. If this is lined and used, the stove would be in the corner, with double wall pipe making its way to this, or a new (legally spaced) flue. With a metal class A, there are many options, the most likely of which is the opposite corner. This would run the chimney through an upstairs storage area, in the eaves of the 1 1/2 story house. It would also necessitate a pretty tall chimney, outside, as I have about an 8/12 pitch to the roof. It would, however, mean that all I'd have to do to clean the chimney is bring home the lift, drive up to the thing, and viola! One pipe, cleaned.

So, oh wise-ish and woodsy ones, any thoughts on this? Am I missing something obvious? I'm genuinely 50/50 on which I'd rather have, and am looking for both advice and opinions, if you're willing to give them. If more pics are needed, no problem.

 

[begreen]

DuraLiner has oval rigid and flex that is pre-insulated. Their 6" oval equivalent is 4.75" x 7.75". They make a complete system with an oval tee to go from oval to round branch for the stove connection.

(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

 

[WriteNoob]

How hard would it be to knock out the old clay liner? Seems like I could just beak it up, and pull it out of the clean out, in the crawl space?

 

[bholler]

Breaking out is not hard but it really is not a do it yourself job. It takes some skill and experience to do it with out damaging the chimney as well as some specialty tools. begreen are you a rep for duravent? not being critical just curious you seem to push it quite often. If the stove works well in its current location i would say line it if you don't really like where it is now move it and put in a class a chimney. A class a will end up costing a little more and no you don't need to bring in the lift to clean it clean from the bottom. To line the existing you have a few options try to fit a bare liner in which i would not recommend drop a liner and pour insulation which still will not give you proper insulation because there is not room ovalize and insulate the liner or break out and insulate as well as the duraliner option mentioned by bg

 

[BrotherBart]

Are you a rep for insulation manufacturers bholler?

 

[begreen]

I am not a rep for nobody. I recommend Duraliner because it's a good product and it offers a nice solution for tight situations, which is what we frequently get asked about. The easy stuff often doesn't get asked here.

 

[WriteNoob]

Thanks for the help, all of you. It is appreciated.

 

[BrotherBart]

As ya already know, you need to hit us with more info like pics of the outside of the chimney, height and a partridge in a pear tree.

This does not look like it is gonna be easy.

 

[WriteNoob]

As ya already know, you need to hit us with more info like pics of the outside of the chimney, height and a partridge in a pear tree.

This does not look like it is gonna be easy.

I'll have to bring the lift back, in the morning, 'cause I ain't gettin' my rotund self up my Little Giant Ladder, in the dark, on an 8/12 roof.

Nearest Duraliner dealer is 75 miles away, so I'll try and find something online. In truth, I looked at them from the beginning. Seemed like a nice system.

bholler, if you have the time, could you give me the cliff notes version of knocking out a liner? They float free of the chimney, correct? I was going to use a chipper on the end of some sections of black pipe to break it up, one at a time, then pull the shards out the clean out. Or am I off base, here? The brickwork is old, but solid.

 

[bholler]

Well they are supposed to be free floating yes but many times they are not. How the pros break out is with a large drill metal rods and some sort of breaker head. What most guys including us use now is a bar in the center with 2 chains coming off of it with steel balls on the ends. And basically you start either at the top or the bottom depending on preference and the condition of the chimney and work your way through little by little shoveling out the bottom. It usually only takes us about an hour unless the tiles are mortared in or they are back filled with debris or loose fill. But before doing any of this you need to evaluate if the chimney is a good candidate for breakout if it has multiple flues are they close to each other that is a major one as well as the overall condition of the masonry.

 

[begreen]

Nearest Duraliner dealer is 75 miles away, so I'll try and find something online. In truth, I looked at them from the beginning. Seemed like a nice system.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstovepro.com/store/Chimney-Pipe-Venting-Pipe/Wood-All-Fuel-Piping/6-inch/DuraLiner-c180/)

 

[WriteNoob]

As ya already know, you need to hit us with more info like pics of the outside of the chimney, height and a partridge in a pear tree.

This does not look like it is gonna be easy.

OK, pics it is ...

Step one, bring home the lazy man's ladder.

Basic shot of the chimney. Hmm, looks like I need to redo some flashing.

I'm thinking that when I install the liner, I'll loose the concrete bevel, cut the clay liner level with the brick, and cover with the stainless cap.


Turns out, I actually have ~7" x 12". Last nights measurements were taken in the dark. Think I can squeeze a 6" down this, with the blanket?

Chimney's a straight shot to its foundation, in the crawl space, where the clean out is. Far as I can tell, the tiles are very straight. No misalignment is evident.

And one last shot from the ground, for perspective on my O.P. an install in the opposite corner with class A metal would bring it out at the bottom edge of the roof (on the other side of the house). Not sure how the required height would look, but it would be a straight up shot, for the exhaust gasses.

From the top of the stove, the height of the stack comes out at around 21-22', for the existing chimney. It would be around 12' (minimum for the Baltic), with the insulated metal. I'd rather have the extra draw, myself.

 

[WriteNoob]

As ya already know, you need to hit us with more info like pics of the outside of the chimney, height and a partridge in a pear tree.

This does not look like it is gonna be easy.

Oh yea, nearly forgot ..

One pear tree, complete with Partridge.

 

[WriteNoob]

OK, so after around a day of trying to find any way that a length of round 6" I.D. Duraliner (6 5/8" O.D.) would not fit into my chimney, I can't. I even ran down a length of 1/2" PVC, along all four edges, trying to feel for any misalignment in the existing clay tiles, or protruding mortar/debris. I could find none. It's expensive, but the Duraliner seems to be a really high quality product, and looks like it'll simplify things on this install.



And, since I've decided the extra height/draft/masonry enclosure trumps, at least for me, the extra convenience and simplicity of a straight shot, double wall class A metal chimney, I've decided in favor of the lined masonry. If I'd been forced to knock out the whole clay liner, and crawl around under my house, scooping out the shards, to do so, it might've been a different story.

All that remains, now, is to scrape up around a grand, to pay for the thing. Oh well, they say quality ain't cheap, and cheap ain't quality. At least I can get free shipping on the stuff.

 

[WriteNoob]

Sorry guys, got a few more questions, this time on the double walled stove pipe.

1. Read somewhere on here that for each 90 degree bend in your pipe, it reduces the effective height of your chimney by a certain amount. Can't seem to locate the post, however. Does anyone have this info? I'm going to have to use two, in my application.
2. Can the adjustable length sections be used in a horizontal position, or only vertically?
3. Does anyone have suggestions for pipe that'll look neatly done and finished, at the point where it connects to the stove? The stuff I've seen, locally, all looks kinda utilitarian and rough.

Thanks again, for your time and help. Just got the email that my new Drolet Baltic shipped, today! Was a little confused, for a second, until I realized it ships from Canada, where today isn't a federal holiday.

Happy Memorial Day, and thank you, to all who've served, including the families who've done the waiting for their loved ones return.