Chimney Pulling Away from House and Loose/Detached

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys,

So as a lot of you know, I have been looking at getting my chimney lined and getting a new wood stove. Today I got some pretty discouraging news to say the least. I am very glad that I decided to get multiple estimates because this is the third guy that has came to the house and neither of the other two caught it. So he said that the chimney has pulled away from my house about 1.75". However, what really scared me pretty good is when he "shook" it. He showed me that he was barley pushing on it and the movement of the entire stack was alarming to say the least.

I asked him what could be done about it and he said not much. He said there are obviously ways to brace it back against the house but he said in his experience it really does not do anything rather than ensure that if it ever does tip over it takes part of your house with it. So I am eager to see if you guys have any advice or feedback. Having that said, I realize this is a community for wood stoves and the like but at this point I may unfortunately be looking at giving it up and installing an HVAC system for my home. I know there are other ways to heat a home, I am not familiar with any of them because I have not had to be in the past.

I do not think that the chimney is an immediate hazard but I'm not sure I want to put the thousands into it that it is going to take to get back up and running efficiently. At this point, I need a new wood stove, it is my understanding that I do need a liner and I need to redo the crown area. So with time being short, I may be looking for alternative sources to heat my home this year. It may be something I can revisit next year and really decide whether or not it is something that I can do. It really does hurt me to even say this because I just bought a log splitter just last year and have been splitting/stacking wood ahead of time.

 

[EbS-P]

Cheapest solution. Tear it down. And install a new free standing stove in the best location of your choosing. If you want to tackle the removal by yourself it’s a weekend job if you have or can get safe access to the top.

Maybe it only needs to come down to the roof line the roof extended then a new class A added back on top? Is there a better place in the house to install a wood stove?

 

[Hexa Fox]

Cheapest solution. Tear it down. And install a new free standing stove in the best location of your choosing. If you want to tackle the removal by yourself it’s a weekend job if you have or can get safe access to the top.

Maybe it only needs to come down to the roof line the roof extended then a new class A added back on top? Is there a better place in the house to install a wood stove?

Unfortunately no, the basement was setup for a wood stove. In that, there is a hearth and mason thimble through the wall to the outside chimney. I was thinking about how I could go straight up but it would probably end up a nightmare. Because assuming I would keep the stove where it is now, which I still believe is the best place for it overall. I would have to go straight up from the basement, through my dining/living room on the second floor and finally the attic/roof. I have some pictures from other forums I can bring over here. They are on another computer.

He told me that he "would feel comfortable going forward with an install if it looked okay from the bottom". To be honest, we did not talk about it again and I forgot to ask. We went over all the other stuff and he said he would get me an estimate for proposed services. So he is obviously going to move forward with an install but not sure if that is the best thing. I need to get up there and check it myself but the amount of play/movement it had concerns me to say the least.

 

[EbS-P]

Unfortunately no, the basement was setup for a wood stove. In that, there is a hearth and mason thimble through the wall to the outside chimney. I was thinking about how I could go straight up but it would probably end up a nightmare. Because assuming I would keep the stove where it is now, which I still believe is the best place for it overall. I would have to go straight up from the basement, through my dining/living room on the second floor and finally the attic/roof. I have some pictures from other forums I can bring over here. They are on another computer.

He told me that he "would feel comfortable going forward with an install if it looked okay from the bottom". To be honest, we did not talk about it again and I forgot to ask. We went over all the other stuff and he said he would get me an estimate for proposed services. So he is obviously going to move forward with an install but not sure if that is the best thing. I need to get up there and check it myself but the amount of play/movement it had concerns me to say the least.

Tear it down until it’s stable then build a chase and run class A up the chase. I don’t know how to transition from liner to class A but it has been done before.

How far are from where the last earthquake happened? Could this have been damage in a quake that you didn’t notice until now?

 

[Hexa Fox]

Tear it down until it’s stable then build a chase and run class A up the chase. I don’t know how to transition from liner to class A but it has been done before.

How far are from where the last earthquake happened? Could this have been damage in a quake that you didn’t notice until now?

Probably pretty far, I am on the North Eastern Panhandle of WV. The damage/wear is recent though because we just had the roof replaced and he said you can see where it has pulled the flashing over slightly. If it was 1.75" I imagine it would take all of that to show. To be clear, they replaced that flashing when they did the roof. This is a job that I may not be able to tackle this year. I have some other problems with the chimney as well. Such as the crack in my thimble that was originally pointed out by bholler.

 

[zak77]

If your masonry chimney moves, at all, then it probably needs to come down. I helped my neighbor paint her house a couple years ago and found her chimney was leaning about 3/4" out of plumb at the top(2 story house). The base seemed ok and there was no movement at all so i braced it against the house with some metal strapping but made it clear to her that if it moves anymore, there's a structural issue and it'd need to come down. I checked it recently and so far, no more movement. And looking at the pics you provided, if that were to fall unexpectedly, it's heading in the direction of your driveway where a car or person could be at any moment and they'd be killed.

It's a tough call because there's no easy, cheap way out of this one. You can try bracing it to the house by attaching steel brackets of some sort to the chimney and structure of the house to buy you a year, maybe, but even then i wouldnt want a couple 2x4's to hold up thousands of pounds of brick and masonry.

Is there just that one flue in the chimney?

 

[kborndale]

I would take down the chimney and replace it. At least take down the chimney now and wait to put up new. If f that came down on its own it could do a lot of damage to persons and property. Were these sweeps or masons you had over? When I replaced my chimney I had a mason do it and it was cheaper than class a. I think brick looks much better too. Call a mason if you haven't had one out there and see what he says.

 

[Highbeam]

Tear that POS down. For lots of reasons. Put up a proper class A pipe chimney in its place to the same hearth below if you like it there.

I tore one down and it's a low skill job. Just lots of lifting of small bricks. You can bury them or landfill them. Maybe even somebody wants them. Either way it's just a crappy pile of soft rocks.

 

[bholler]

The swaying of the chimney really isn't anything uncommon at all. Most that run up the outside of the house will do that if you push on them. Pulling away from the house may or may not be a problem. It can absolutely be strapped back to the house or attached by through bolting with decorativeplates on the face. But many will move a bit right after construction then be fine. I don't see a gap at the flashing so I doubt it's recent movement. Yes tearing it down then putting up a prefab chimney is an option. But by the time you take it down pay dor disposal buy the chimney then either reside that side of the house or enclose the new chimney in a chase to cover where the masonry was your going to be quite a bit more expensive than just building a new masonry chimney with a properly sized and insulated liner.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I took a chimney down, then threw a little away every week with the trash until it was gone. It took a while, but I wasn’t in that much of a hurry, lol.

 

[Hexa Fox]

I took a chimney down, then threw a little away every week with the trash until it was gone. It took a while, but I wasn’t in that much of a hurry, lol.

That is hilarious and probably why trash bills are outrageous. "Hey Jimmy you see this garbage bag that comes in every week with like half a dozen or so bricks?" I am guilty of the same thing with "construction material" lmao.

 

[Hexa Fox]

The swaying of the chimney really isn't anything uncommon at all. Most that run up the outside of the house will do that if you push on them. Pulling away from the house may or may not be a problem. It can absolutely be strapped back to the house or attached by through bolting with decorativeplates on the face. But many will move a bit right after construction then be fine. I don't see a gap at the flashing so I doubt it's recent movement. Yes tearing it down then putting up a prefab chimney is an option. But by the time you take it down pay dor disposal buy the chimney then either reside that side of the house or enclose the new chimney in a chase to cover where the masonry was your going to be quite a bit more expensive than just building a new masonry chimney with a properly sized and insulated liner.

Tear that POS down. For lots of reasons. Put up a proper class A pipe chimney in its place to the same hearth below if you like it there.

I tore one down and it's a low skill job. Just lots of lifting of small bricks. You can bury them or landfill them. Maybe even somebody wants them. Either way it's just a crappy pile of soft rocks.

The rest of my house is what is a POS lol. The chimney is probably the best looking thing about it. It still looks really good and honestly I think it is in good overall shape. Tearing it down right now is not my major concern, my major concern is what I am going to do to heat my home this Winter. I am sure I could probably demo it myself but I don't know about it happening this season and being able to put something up too.

My first choice would be to bolt it back to the house. I do not know what this process is. Could I ask you or someone to send me the link to a video or product? Can bracing like this pull my chimney back over a little bit? I realize this picture probably does not do a lot for anyone but it did look pretty straight until you got toward the bottom.

 

[bholler]

The rest of my house is what is a POS lol. The chimney is probably the best looking thing about it. It still looks really good and honestly I think it is in good overall shape. Tearing it down right now is not my major concern, my major concern is what I am going to do to heat my home this Winter. I am sure I could probably demo it myself but I don't know about it happening this season and being able to put something up too.

My first choice would be to bolt it back to the house. I do not know what this process is. Could I ask you or someone to send me the link to a video or product? Can bracing like this pull my chimney back over a little bit? I realize this picture probably does not do a lot for anyone but it did look pretty straight until you got toward the bottom.

View attachment 316726

I have both through bolted and strapped chimneys. The most important part is speading the load across as many framing members as possible. In your case I would go in the attic and tie together and triangulate to the roof across as many joists as possible

 

[Hexa Fox]

I have both through bolted and strapped chimneys. The most important part is speading the load across as many framing members as possible. In your case I would go in the attic and tie together and triangulate to the roof across as many joists as possible

This is what I was thinking because the attic is the highest place. I was thinking I could even tie some of the framing together and bolt it to the brace from the outside.

 

[bholler]

This is what I was thinking because the attic is the highest place. I was thinking I could even tie some of the framing together and bolt it to the brace from the outside.

You tie the framing together and run the brace into the attic attaching to that bracing. I usually use 3/4" allthread

 

[begreen]

I took a chimney down, then threw a little away every week with the trash until it was gone. It took a while, but I wasn’t in that much of a hurry, lol.

I tore two down in our house, one with a fireplace. After that I used some of the bricks as path edging. The rest I gave away. They went quickly because they were for free. The metal chimney does not need to be chased. That's an expense that can be deferred to another time, if ever.

 

[peakbagger]

FYI, If the chimney is solid but the footing is marginal there is possible repair using spiral auger anchors (AKA helical screw piles). The contractor digs down along the footing and installs a large angle iron to the footing using epoxy masonry anchors. Spiral augers are screwed down into the soil. By measuring the force required to screw the augers in, the contractor can equate that with the augers load capacity. Once they are in deep enough, the auger shaft is attached to the angle iron and the load on chimney is transferred to the auger. https://www.hubbell.com/chancefoundationsolutions/en/about-us/chance-products/helical-piles

My parents had a home built on poor soils (marine clay). One corner of the house had sunk a couple of inches over the years. It got worse after there was a lot of nearby excavation work. They lifted an entire corner of the house with these helical piers. As far as I know its has not gone back to where it was. It has been approved by various code authorities as a permanent fix.

Note I think seismic codes require some sort of attachment of the chimney to the house.

 

[bholler]

I tore two down in our house, one with a fireplace. After that I used some of the bricks as path edging. The rest I gave away. They went quickly because they were for free. The metal chimney does not need to be chased. That's an expense that can be deferred to another time, if ever.

No it doesn't need to be chased but the gap in the siding needs addressed

 

[Hexa Fox]

No it doesn't need to be chased but the gap in the siding needs addressed

Hey I hate to even ask this, but being a professional what do you think my risk is if I use my existing system this year the way it is? I will definitely clean it thoroughly and I plan to get a new wood stove installed but I am running out of time and options this year. Even if I have someone schedule any labor for me I am now going to easily be into November or December. Specifically, with the crack in my thimble and any other problems you may see. This isn't just for bholler others can answer. I guess I am directing it his way more or less.

Another thing is there are very few resources for bracing a chimney and I have never been confident messing around with roofs, trusses, flashing, gutters or anything like that if messed up will let water into your home. I am lacking a lot of carpenter skills my late father had unfortunately. Having that said, my plan is to look for a perforated square tube, run threaded metal rod through it and bolt it down somewhere in my attic. The two things I do not like are how I will drill into my home/attic to get the threaded metal rod through and how I will tie as many other supporting structures together to support it. Again I see very few products for bracing a masonry chimney. Also if I decide to put this stuff on the back burner for awhile I can decide if I am going to tear the chimney down or brace it. If I decide to brace it, I could probably even work on it this Winter.

This may be a simple job for a lot of you but I do not like taking on something so involved when I am clearly running out of nice weather. I did get on the roof myself last night before sunset and shook it. To be honest, it feels like if I were to sit down and try to kick it over it would come down pretty easily. So to me the movement seems unbelievable but please note I am no expert on these things. What seems like a lot to me may be 'normal' for a sweep that is on roofs all the time. I may try to have someone take a short video or something.

 

[Hexa Fox]

It can absolutely be strapped back to the house or attached by through bolting with decorativeplates on the face.

Does anyone have any links they can send of an example for this? I have tried to Google about everything "brick chimney brace", "mason chimney strap" etc and have not been able to really find anything.

I also talked to Woodstock Soapstone company again and got one of the owners. Pretty knowledgeable individual. He also said that the specifications of my chimney, even with the horizontal run and two elbows did not alarm him. I asked about returning the stove and he said if I am unhappy with it returning it is an option. So again I am considering the Ideal Steel because of the simple fact of if it does cause me a problem I can always return it. The chimney is the greater concern as of right now.

 

[zak77]

Chances are you have trusses as a roof system. Do NOT attach that chimney to the gable end "truss", which really isnt a "truss", without adding bracing to other members first. There isnt a lot of structure in the gable end truss so it wouldnt take much to take that down and cause more problems for you. If you are just not able to fix the chimney this year and have to use it, then bracing will be your best option and you can use it as is hoping strong winds dont bring it down. You can brace the truss like in the link first then you can attach the chimney to that bracing using adequate fasteners. You can use something as lightweight as steel pipe hanger strap run or get some 1/4" thick angle iron with brackets welded on that you can attach to the chimney and house but that wont be cheap. You will probably also want to strap the chimney into a couple different places.

Redirect Notice

 

[bholler]

A strong wind it's going to take that chimney down. Yes it should be addressed but it really isn't that big of a deal

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Just to recap from the beginning:

You had 3 guys come look at your chimney. The 3rd one informed you that the chimney had pulled away from the house and was rocking back and forth. This was surprising news and scared you. Am I correct?

So, just to play Devil’s Advocate, have you had anybody else look at it to verify that this is , in fact, an issue?

How was the 1.75” determined? An external chimney needs 1” per code, when I built mine I put 2-3”. I can’t remember. Depending how that’s measured, it wouldn’t be hard to convince somebody (intentional or not) that there is an issue that needs attention. The swaying, depending on how much there is, may or may not be an issue. You’re pushing on the top of a 20ft lever. It doesn’t take much force to get some movement. You can’t see how the chimney is attached, but they may have used sheet metal anchors like these:

Amazon product ASIN B005XQDZMQ
They work, but the sheet metal is not strong enough to stop a chimney from rocking.


Has anybody run a line down the side to verify it is out of plumb and by how much? A nut on the end of a string can be used as a plumb bob.

Before taking out a mortgage and/or selling children to make repairs, let’s verify how much of an issue there is.

Your passage:

“He told me that he "would feel comfortable going forward with an install if it looked okay from the bottom". To be honest, we did not talk about it again and I forgot to ask. We went over all the other stuff and he said he would get me an estimate for proposed services. So he is obviously going to move forward with an install but not sure if that is the best thing. I need to get up there and check it myself but the amount of play/movement it had concerns me to say the least.”

This makes me say, Hmmm. So, he’s willing to just throw a liner in and call it a day on a chimney that’s about ready to fall over? That doesn’t seem right, does it?

I’d get another opinion on it. Maybe call the first 2 guys back and ask them if they noticed it and if they thought it was an issue. They might not have noticed it in negligence or they may not have thought it was an issue. They guy who pointed it out may be an awesome mason who noticed something the other guys missed, or may have tried to get himself a bigger job.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Just to recap from the beginning:

You had 3 guys come look at your chimney. The 3rd one informed you that the chimney had pulled away from the house and was rocking back and forth. This was surprising news and scared you. Am I correct?

So, just to play Devil’s Advocate, have you had anybody else look at it to verify that this is , in fact, an issue?

How was the 1.75” determined? An external chimney needs 1” per code, when I built mine I put 2-3”. I can’t remember. Depending how that’s measured, it wouldn’t be hard to convince somebody (intentional or not) that there is an issue that needs attention. The swaying, depending on how much there is, may or may not be an issue. You’re pushing on the top of a 20ft lever. It doesn’t take much force to get some movement. You can’t see how the chimney is attached, but they may have used sheet metal anchors like these:

Amazon product ASIN B005XQDZMQ
They work, but the sheet metal is not strong enough to stop a chimney from rocking.


Has anybody run a line down the side to verify it is out of plumb and by how much? A nut on the end of a string can be used as a plumb bob.

Before taking out a mortgage and/or selling children to make repairs, let’s verify how much of an issue there is.

Your passage:

“He told me that he "would feel comfortable going forward with an install if it looked okay from the bottom". To be honest, we did not talk about it again and I forgot to ask. We went over all the other stuff and he said he would get me an estimate for proposed services. So he is obviously going to move forward with an install but not sure if that is the best thing. I need to get up there and check it myself but the amount of play/movement it had concerns me to say the least.”

This makes me say, Hmmm. So, he’s willing to just throw a liner in and call it a day on a chimney that’s about ready to fall over? That doesn’t seem right, does it?

I’d get another opinion on it. Maybe call the first 2 guys back and ask them if they noticed it and if they thought it was an issue. They might not have noticed it in negligence or they may not have thought it was an issue. They guy who pointed it out may be an awesome mason who noticed something the other guys missed, or may have tried to get himself a bigger job.

Yeah I have talked to several people. I talked to a mason that I trust about the chimney and he said you never know, which is basically what you guys are telling me too it seems like. He said he has been on jobs where you could get on the roof and literally push them over. He also said that bracing it can and probably will be a permanent solution for many years. Just he said you are obviously risking it. So I had another mason service come out today but the mistake I made is that they specialize in chimneys, so again I got someone that benefits. I really liked this guy though and he pointed out something that I meant to check. He said even though it is close, he said my thimble definitely comes out above the ground.

A strong wind it's going to take that chimney down. Yes it should be addressed but it really isn't that big of a deal

Keep in mind that it is leaning toward my driveway. So falling down could definitely create a headache for me. Just saying.

My plan now is to get rid of my old wood stove and get a new one. I am currently looking at the Ideal Steel or the Absolute Steel from Woodstock Soapstone. I like the Absolute Steel because I can get the door on the right side so I can easily put wood straight into the stove from my rack. Again I talked to a owner over there and he told me they definitely do take stoves back and he said there was nothing alarming about the specifications of my chimney. He may have even gotten a little agitated with me (which I understand lol) because I pressed the horizontal run and two elbows.

That will allow me the time needed to decide what I want to do with the chimney. Unless of course that is Mother Nature decides for me lol. Regardless if the stove works decently well with the clay flue liner I may opt to brace it and put a liner in it. If not I can always knock it down and rebuild it with class A pipe. Finally I can also send this stove back, which is obviously not ideal. Just this way I basically leave all my options open and I will not have to worry about using my crappy electric baseboard heat this year.

UPDATE
I also need to go split some of my wood and get the moisture reading. I want to know what my stuff is reading, From my understanding most woods are good after being split and stacked for a year. I realize some woods can take an additional year and stuff like that. I have about a cord of stuff out there that was "delivered seasoned" that has now been stacked on my property well over a year. I have about two-three cords of ash that has been split and stacked roughly a year now. I have all kinds of other stuff out there.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Just to recap from the beginning:

You had 3 guys come look at your chimney. The 3rd one informed you that the chimney had pulled away from the house and was rocking back and forth. This was surprising news and scared you. Am I correct?

So, just to play Devil’s Advocate, have you had anybody else look at it to verify that this is , in fact, an issue?

How was the 1.75” determined? An external chimney needs 1” per code, when I built mine I put 2-3”. I can’t remember. Depending how that’s measured, it wouldn’t be hard to convince somebody (intentional or not) that there is an issue that needs attention. The swaying, depending on how much there is, may or may not be an issue. You’re pushing on the top of a 20ft lever. It doesn’t take much force to get some movement. You can’t see how the chimney is attached, but they may have used sheet metal anchors like these:

Amazon product ASIN B005XQDZMQ
They work, but the sheet metal is not strong enough to stop a chimney from rocking.


Has anybody run a line down the side to verify it is out of plumb and by how much? A nut on the end of a string can be used as a plumb bob.

Before taking out a mortgage and/or selling children to make repairs, let’s verify how much of an issue there is.

Your passage:

“He told me that he "would feel comfortable going forward with an install if it looked okay from the bottom". To be honest, we did not talk about it again and I forgot to ask. We went over all the other stuff and he said he would get me an estimate for proposed services. So he is obviously going to move forward with an install but not sure if that is the best thing. I need to get up there and check it myself but the amount of play/movement it had concerns me to say the least.”

This makes me say, Hmmm. So, he’s willing to just throw a liner in and call it a day on a chimney that’s about ready to fall over? That doesn’t seem right, does it?

I’d get another opinion on it. Maybe call the first 2 guys back and ask them if they noticed it and if they thought it was an issue. They might not have noticed it in negligence or they may not have thought it was an issue. They guy who pointed it out may be an awesome mason who noticed something the other guys missed, or may have tried to get himself a bigger job.

Okay so I just called back the original guy that found the chimney was leaning. I like him, my mason friend has moved and does not live as close to me anymore. So he hasn't put his eyes or hands on the situation. I asked the sweep that came out (that put hands and eyes on it) to give me his honest opinion. He said to tear it down. He said that, I could probably push it over with my hands. He said he would send me an estimate to do class A pipe as a replacement.