Choosing the right size insert

[Wondering]

Hello. I'm looking for my first wood insert and getting mightily confused. It is for a cottage in Ontario, Canada
which we only use on weekends in the fall and winter. The space is about 850 square feet with the main room being 375 sq. feet with 9 ft. ceilings. There is a small hallway and two bedroom off it. The house is log with stone floors right on the ground--no crawl space. Lots of windows and patio doors and not great insulation. It will be the main source of heat and when we arrive in the winter it will be very cold. My question is, what size unit do I need? Different dealers tell me very different things. Some say go with a 50,000 BTU unit because you don't want to over heat and burn inefficiently. Others say I need an 85,000 BTU to heat up the space quickly and tell me to open the windows if it gets too hot. I'm afraid a large unit will be too much in the fall and spring. What to do? Also, ideally, I'd like a unit that works well without a fan. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[begreen]

It takes a huge amount of heat to bring all the mass of a cold house or cabin up to temperature. That includes walls, floors, furniture, cabinets, etc.. So putting in an oversized stove or having a supplemental heater (like propane) to boost temps while warming up is a good idea. Otherwise you will spend all weekend trying to get the place warm. So I would go larger, at least 2 cu ft. for the insert. Drolet makes some affordable inserts in this range. There is also the True North TN20 or PE Super inserts which have a more square firebox that I prefer. If one will fit the Enviro Kodiak 1700 and Regency I2400 are good choices too.

 

[Rickb]

Take BTU with a grain of salt. You will want a 2 - 3cft stove. I would also get 1 with a fan or have a box/pedistal fan handy you can point at the stove to get the heat moving around when you get there and its cold.

There are many many stoves that could work well for you. Post some models you like and we can tell you why it would/wouldnt work.

 

[joshuaboston]

850 sf is not that large. I think 3 cubic feet is an overkill... the lopi large flush insert at 3.0 cubic feet is rated for 2,500 sf.

I also agree about going bigger is better. I would try to find a 2.0 cubic firebox in size (maybe a little bigger or smaller). Realize that a 1.2 square foot firebox from Lopi is rated at 1,000 square feet and I think this is also a viable option.

I am not loyal to Lopi but I would go with a NAMED brand that is recommend in this forum.

I would also get a CAT so you can have long burn times.

So I just purchased a insert and I was also very confused about what size to get. I have about 1,800 sf and I ended up getting the lopi large flush hybrid (will be installed in about 2 weeks) which is rated at 2,500 sf. But I live in a well insulated town house and I only have two walls facing the outside and Boston's winters are not as cold as yours (I'm from Quebec)…. basically I feel I purchased an overkill but everyone told me that you can adjust the air flow and that would increase the burn times even more... the down side is that I may end up cleaning the glass more often cause soot may form on the glass if your are not burning at a high temperature.

 

[Wondering]

Take BTU with a grain of salt. You will want a 2 - 3cft stove. I would also get 1 with a fan or have a box/pedistal fan handy you can point at the stove to get the heat moving around when you get there and its cold.

There are many many stoves that could work well for you. Post some models you like and we can tell you why it would/wouldnt work.

Thanks so much for your speedy replies Begreen and Rickb. The bigger ones I've looked are the Regency i2400 and i3100 and the Pacific Energy Super and Summit inserts or the flush Neo 2.5. One dealer also recommended the Lopi Medium Flush Wood Plus. My fireplace is 40 inches wide so I'm hoping to maximize the viewing area so the insert won't look lost in that big space. Question. If I get such a big insert, how do I operate it in the spring and fall when I wont need so much heat? Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

850 sf is not that large. I think 3 cubic feet is an overkill... the lopi large flush insert at 3.0 cubic feet is rated for 2,500 sf.
I also agree about going bigger is better. I would try to find a 2.0 cubic firebox in size (maybe a little bigger or smaller). Realize that a 1.2 square foot firebox from Lopi is rated at 1,000 square feet and I think this is also a viable option.
I am not loyal to Lopi but I would go with a NAMED brand that is recommend in this forum.
I would also get a CAT so you can have long burn times.

Ratings have little to do with this situation and the advantages of a cat stove would be nil here.

 

[begreen]

For this installation I don't think a flush insert is the best solution. An insert that projects out onto the hearth is going to radiate more heat. That will help with warming up the place. In milder weather, just add less wood and make smaller fires.

 

[joshuaboston]

Ratings have little to do with this situation and the advantages of a cat stove would be nil here.

I don't understand why you would say this. Doesn't a cat mean longer burn times? That means you may be able to sleep all night and the fire will produce heat all night... without a cat perhaps at 5:00 am your fire is coals and not producing that much.

Also, with a cat it means you are doing less work... that is less times you need to fill the wood.

Can you tell me why you say a cat insert would not be advantageous? What about the environment? Doesn't a cat stove help with that and what about cleaning your insert... doesn't a cat stove produce less creosote which means that the chimney doesn't need to be cleaned as often and less chance of a chimney fire?

Doesn't a cat insert burns wood and delivers more heat a stove without a cat using the same amount of wood?

 

[begreen]

A cat stove would need to be working at peak output in this situation for most of the weekend. Longer burn times diminish or disappear under this circumstance.
As for the environment, there are non-cats that burn very cleanly including the inexpensive Englander 30-NC. Cat stoves are not known for clean chimneys. Sometimes it's the opposite because they often have cooler flue gases that condense in the upper parts of the chimney. But all of this is moot in this circumstance. The stove is going to be working at peak output and that pretty much neutralizes the cat advantages in this situation. Cats can be great in the right circumstance but this is not the best application for cat technology.

 

[joshuaboston]

For this installation I don't think a flush insert is the best solution. An insert that projects out onto the hearth is going to radiate more heat. That will help with warming up the place. In milder weather, just add less wood and make smaller fires.

I haven't heard of any insert that heats great without the blower on. Personally I like the flush look.

 

[joshuaboston]

Last thing I wanted to add is... don't listen to me.. listen to the STAFF cause I really do not know much... maybe enough to get into some trouble. Good Luck.

 

[begreen]

I haven't heard of any insert that heats great without the blower on. Personally I like the flush look and I think the ones that stick out are but ugly.

Personal opinion. Not founded in fact.

 

[Wondering]

Hi everyone. So, it seems to be a toss up between the Regency I2400 or 3100 or the PE Super insert. The Regency has bigger glass area but the fan sticking out is ugly. The Super supposedly has better convection without the fan. Any thoughts on which would be the best choice for my 40 inch wide fireplace and cold winter house? Thanks.

 

[Wondering]

I just discovered the PE Alderlea T5 insert. Would that be a good choice and how much more expensive is it than the Super?

 

[begreen]

Same firebox as the Super different surround. The Regencies listed are larger. The 2400 is about the same size as the Enviro Kodiak and Boston and the PE Summit is the size of the 3100.

 

[Wondering]

Hello again. The internet is a curse because you can research endlessly and then become totally confused about what to choose. I've just discovered the enviro kodiak 1700 and between that and the regency i2400 I'm wondering what the best choice would be. I find the sticking out fan on the regency ugly but wonder if it has other virtues that would make it a better choice than the enviro. Any thoughts?

 

[begreen]

I like the Enviro. It is very well made. Nice hardware and a coupled secondary air control. It also is an easy breather which can help with short chimney installs.

 

[Wondering]

Thanks for your help Begreen. I'm off to buy one next week.

 

[jetsam]

I haven't heard of any insert that heats great without the blower on. Personally I like the flush look.

I heat my whole house with a blowerless insert in the fall and spring. The blower doesn't come on until it gets below freezing.

It works great because it doesn't have the flush look you like.

 

[Wondering]

Hi Jetsam. Great. I'd like to find an insert that works well without a fan. What insert fo you have and how big an area are you heating?

 

[jetsam]

Hi Jetsam. Great. I'd like to find an insert that works well without a fan. What insert fo you have and how big an area are you heating?

Blaze King Princess Insert, and 2300sf. It it a little too small for that job but it manages. (Disclaimer: My 2300sf is not your 2300sf. Square footage ratings are made up by the marketing department, not the engineers. They do not know what kind of insulation and windows you have, what temperature you want in the back room, or how you run the stove.)

I don't have a lot of basis for comparison with inserts, but my guess is that the secret to finding an insert that works well without a fan is pretty simple: Find one that sticks out into the room as much as possible. (Better yet, get a freestanding stove because all of its surface area is in the room to be heated.)

Another one that gets great reviews on here is the Kuma Sequoia. I have no experience with it, but it was a close second to my Princess when I was picking stoves. It has a neat convective loop air channel in the jacket that keeps air blowing across the firebox without a fan.

The Sequoia is a bigger firebox with a higher top end. The Princess is smaller but with a vastly lower low end and 2x the shoulder season burn time. Don't remember if the Sequoia was 6" or 8". They both stick out about a foot.

Don't know much about the Enviro, but if begreen says it's good, it's good.

Honestly, you can probably find someone to tell you that each of the three is the best one, so pick what is going to work for the way you want to burn.