Okay, we seem to have concensus- smoke dragon refers to outside wood furnaces, while classic refers to indoor woodstoves pre-epa. Shall we make it official? What about antique? What's the cut-off year for those?
"Classic"- is it official?
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Classic.....Officially
Cars have years and wives have years but lets not do that to our "classic" stoves! They give their all year after year to keep us nice and toasty and all they ask for is a good sweep and some new paint once in a while. As my signature says.........Classic
Cars have years and wives have years but lets not do that to our "classic" stoves! They give their all year after year to keep us nice and toasty and all they ask for is a good sweep and some new paint once in a while. As my signature says.........Classic
My vote would be that an Antique is anything made prior to 1930, Anything after that and until the EPA stoves would be a Classic and we could certainly call those outside stove houses that burn large logs and smoke enough to pollute a neighborhood: Smoke Dragons.
But we need to defer to Craig's judgement on the call for year breaks.
What say ye Craig?
But we need to defer to Craig's judgement on the call for year breaks.
What say ye Craig?
Much,much better. my mid 80~s PE D1 insert is at least controllable. I burn 5 cords a year(3.5 cords of red cedar slabs"millends", and 1.5 cords of fir. As many of you know, that cedar is a light wood, and burns really hot. I do mix it when I burn, but like the control I have with-1 primary control, 2 secondary control,3 damper control. With my CLASSIC I can manipulate the burn almost down to a science. It is true I will never get an overnite burn with softwood, but I can get as much as 5 hours burning hot and clean. Rarely do I see visible smoke from my chimney(23ftSS liner) and 3/8inch solid plate steel baffle, and it is Jan.10, and have not had to clean the glass yet on my insert. So don`t give me that "smoke dragon crap". Visible smoke is usually seen at 20 grams of particulates per hour or more. Sure, there are some negatives, like no overnite burn, and probably burning 1 more cord of wood than with a newer insert. Minor, very minor, bucking and splitting wood is great exercise-and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. If you burn "hot and clean" you have nothing to be ashamed of. You are probably not producing anymore than 15 grams of particulates per hour. A CLASSIC insert or stove is a great tool in the hands of a responsible wood-burner. And I am not totally convinced that those newer products with the secondary burn are controllable when burning a light and extremly dry wood like cedar. *eg. doesn`t take much to overfire, my wife tossed in a piece of cardboard when I had a good burn going and it sounded like an earthquake and a freight train for about 20 seconds. :roll: yep she got #@#@ right royaly for that. But it was easily brought under control by turning down all 3 resources at my command. With the newer stuff, good luck correcting that error....
Just had a second thought. According to our definition, the current EPA stoves that we now burn and love can't become "Classics" someday. I guess when that day comes we could call them "EPA Classics"? That doesn't sound too cool, but maybe when that day gets here we'll have a better term. How bout Epaclassic.? (short "a" vowel sound-- like ah) That sounds better!
BeGreen:
Can you kinda see why my wife hates the woodsheds. Made me build them way back in the woods. Guess, when those ugly blue tarps wear out I will replace with black,, Little more inconspicious? How about where you are, lots of red cedar really cheap.
Got 5 cords of that stuff (green) coming tomorrow for $300. slabs, mill ends. Next years warmth.
Can you kinda see why my wife hates the woodsheds. Made me build them way back in the woods. Guess, when those ugly blue tarps wear out I will replace with black,, Little more inconspicious? How about where you are, lots of red cedar really cheap.
Got 5 cords of that stuff (green) coming tomorrow for $300. slabs, mill ends. Next years warmth.
No, account is up and in good standing......why do you think he (you) was banned?retiredgeorge said:
Old threads look fine:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/12726/
Inquiring minds want to know....
I've been asked to chime in on stove naming.......I guess I have the old opinion:
"Call it anything, just don't call me late for dinner"
Smoke dragon just kind of took over by itself - maybe Goose started it.
I assume folks will continue to use any word they want - I usually use "pre-epa" or something like that. Somehow we will end up understanding each other. Certainly not any kind of "policy" involving stuff like this - we try to keep the policy list as short as possible!
Well Craig:
Around Xmas I went on a little tirade (which I apologize for) and next day an email from a moderator. I didn`t even look at the email :red: just assumed the worst after noticing my "rant" was rightfully pulled. Can`t really add anything more to this other than to say-"I aint gonna post in the evening after too much celebration,just not a wise thing to do"..
Around Xmas I went on a little tirade (which I apologize for) and next day an email from a moderator. I didn`t even look at the email :red: just assumed the worst after noticing my "rant" was rightfully pulled. Can`t really add anything more to this other than to say-"I aint gonna post in the evening after too much celebration,just not a wise thing to do"..
They're really different terms. Smoke dragon refers to inefficient burning. Classic refers to age.
I would call a stove a smoke dragon if there was no design attempt to reburn the unburnt wood gases. I don't think an arbitrary date solves the question. There are some old stove designs, like the Jotul 602 (1940's?), which are pretty clean burners. And then there are several steel and iron horses from the 60-70's that don't even have a baffle. Essentially they are steel fireplaces with doors. That's what I call a smoke-dragon.
I would call a stove a smoke dragon if there was no design attempt to reburn the unburnt wood gases. I don't think an arbitrary date solves the question. There are some old stove designs, like the Jotul 602 (1940's?), which are pretty clean burners. And then there are several steel and iron horses from the 60-70's that don't even have a baffle. Essentially they are steel fireplaces with doors. That's what I call a smoke-dragon.
I like the idea of keeping the policy list short. Any possibility of adding a policy about that ;-)
I didn't start the "smoke dragon" label, I forget just who did, but I think the term was used in reference to my old stove, and I just picked up on it... That said, I will probably continue to call the old pre-EPA stoves by that name, as IMHO "classic" does not always mean "good"... I'm not dogmatic about it though, as it seems like every time I get a new dogma, somebody runs over it with their kharma... :lol:
As a side note, if you get a message from a moderator after doing something you shouldn't, most likely it is merely a warning to cool it. We don't have banning power w/o Craig's help and agreement - OTOH a message from Web could be more significant... :bug: However the real test is whether or not you can still log in.
Gooserider
As a side note, if you get a message from a moderator after doing something you shouldn't, most likely it is merely a warning to cool it. We don't have banning power w/o Craig's help and agreement - OTOH a message from Web could be more significant... :bug: However the real test is whether or not you can still log in.
Gooserider
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