Clearance Assistance BK Ashford 30.2

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Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
Hi,

So, my husband and I are looking serious at the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 . It is a much bigger stove than our little Englander. While looking at the clearance information online, I am a little confused about clearances around non-combustible, since the information is all about combustible materials.

I have attached pictures of our hearth and current woodstove. As you can see, the rear and partial side of the surround has tin ceiling tiles that are fire-rated, per the manufacture. This sits atop concrete board. So the surround should be fine as far as being fire safe, per my understanding.

My concern is that we don't have enough clearance from the center of the chimney to the wall. The Ashford calls for 25.5" per the diagram, to a combustible wall. From the center of our current chimney to the tin is 22".

Does a material being a non-combustible factor into clearances?

I asked the dealer about this. I took a detailed drawing of my hearth with measurements and he just glanced at it and said it would be fine. I want to understand this process and make sure I feel comfortable.

Thanks!

Gretchen

unnamed-1.jpg unnamed.jpg
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,166
central pa
Hi,

So, my husband and I are looking serious at the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 . It is a much bigger stove than our little Englander. While looking at the clearance information online, I am a little confused about clearances around non-combustible, since the information is all about combustible materials.

I have attached pictures of our hearth and current woodstove. As you can see, the rear and partial side of the surround has tin ceiling tiles that are fire-rated, per the manufacture. This sits atop concrete board. So the surround should be fine as far as being fire safe, per my understanding.

My concern is that we don't have enough clearance from the center of the chimney to the wall. The Ashford calls for 25.5" per the diagram, to a combustible wall. From the center of our current chimney to the tin is 22".

Does a material being a non-combustible factor into clearances?

I asked the dealer about this. I took a detailed drawing of my hearth with measurements and he just glanced at it and said it would be fine. I want to understand this process and make sure I feel comfortable.

Thanks!

Gretchen

View attachment 280916 View attachment 280917
It looks like it is mounted directly on wood so no it doesn't change clearances at all
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
It is my understanding that what matters is not what (e.g. non-combustible tiles) is in between combustibles and the stove, the only thing that matters is the actual distance, regardless of how much metal or concrete one has in between.
 

Geoff C

Burning Hunk
Oct 29, 2011
137
PA
Does your pipe go through the ceiling? It looks like the 25” was for a through the wall install.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
No, the manual lists 25.5" as the distance to a sidewall, measured from the center of the flue collar.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,328
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Hi,

So, my husband and I are looking serious at the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 . It is a much bigger stove than our little Englander. While looking at the clearance information online, I am a little confused about clearances around non-combustible, since the information is all about combustible materials.

I have attached pictures of our hearth and current woodstove. As you can see, the rear and partial side of the surround has tin ceiling tiles that are fire-rated, per the manufacture. This sits atop concrete board. So the surround should be fine as far as being fire safe, per my understanding.

My concern is that we don't have enough clearance from the center of the chimney to the wall. The Ashford calls for 25.5" per the diagram, to a combustible wall. From the center of our current chimney to the tin is 22".

Does a material being a non-combustible factor into clearances?

I asked the dealer about this. I took a detailed drawing of my hearth with measurements and he just glanced at it and said it would be fine. I want to understand this process and make sure I feel comfortable.

Thanks!

Gretchen

View attachment 280916 View attachment 280917

The clearance to combustible specs for all stoves are actually measured as the distance from the specified stove item (pipe, body, etc) to the actual first combustible. Regardless of layers of noncombustible stuff in between.

For example, if the wood studs in the wall are 12" from the stove and the stove's clearance requirements require 14" then no amount of any metal, concrete, tile, air spaced brick, etc. will make that legal since the combustible wood studs are still at 12" away.

It's a common mistake to think that a layer of insulation or brick makes the "surface" non combustible. The combustible thing is still on the other side and makes the install illegal if it's too close.
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
The clearance to combustible specs for all stoves are actually measured as the distance from the specified stove item (pipe, body, etc) to the actual first combustible. Regardless of layers of noncombustible stuff in between.

For example, if the wood studs in the wall are 12" from the stove and the stove's clearance requirements require 14" then no amount of any metal, concrete, tile, air spaced brick, etc. will make that legal since the combustible wood studs are still at 12" away.

It's a common mistake to think that a layer of insulation or brick makes the "surface" non combustible. The combustible thing is still on the other side and makes the install illegal if it's too close.

That is what I was thinking. Does using double wall pipe help at all in this case? We do have plenty of room to move the stove forward, so we could angle the stove pipe forward some, so the chimney itself would be in the room and not in line with either wall. This won't of course change where the stove pipe enters our roof. I don't know if this stove will work then or if we have to find a different one.

It's super frustrating that the damn dealer can't answer these questions for me.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
No it's a stove clearance issue, just using an easy measurement from the center of the pipe.

BK does recommend using double wall pipe (and this won't change the clearance question you posed).
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
Here is a screenshot of the clearance section from the BK Ashford manual. I got the 25.5" stove pipe clearance from the alcove installation. While we don't have an alcove install, our current stove is sitting on the hearth as the stove in the alcove diagram is. Should I be using the diagram of the corner install, even though our stove isn't in a corner?
 

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
This is not an alcove. The minimum clearance to the right side, tinned wall is 10.75" from the stove side ("A") assuming the stove is installed like the old Englander was with the side parallel to the right side wing wall.
If the stove is set at a 45º angle for a corner install then the dimension "E" is 4".
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
I don't think so. The minimum clearance to a wall perpendicular to the plane of the front door is 25.5" from what I read. While here they don't have "the other wall" of the alcove, why would they be allowed to go lower than that minimum clearance to such a side wall?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
Note that they are measuring from the center of the stove pipe, not the side of the stove (i.e. C, not A)
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
I'm not sure where the 22.5" for a side clearance is coming from. That would be very high for a cast iron clad wood stove. The Ashford is a relatively close clearance stove. The listed clearance A does not seem ambiguous.
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
This is not an alcove. The minimum clearance to the right side, tinned wall is 10.75" from the stove assuming the stove is installed like the old Englander was with the side parallel to the right side wing wall.

Our plan is to install the Ashford as the Englander currently sits. We have 10.5 with Englander right now, to the tin wall.

The Ashford is a much bigger stove than the Englander.

Now, another question I have is this. Per the corner install diagram, is F or 16.875" the stovepipe clearance information I need for my setup?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
Got it. Stovekiller and I cross-posted. It's pretty clear that things will need to change a bit for the larger stove including a wider hearth and maintaining the 10.75" side clearance. This could also need an offset in the stovepipe to align correctly. Yes, F would be the guiding minimum clearance centerline for the stovepipe in a corner install where the stove sits at a 45º to the room.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
A corner install being one where the stove is not parallel to any wall, not one like yours is now. For the current orientation, the C (to middle stove pipe) or A (to side wall) would be needed.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,166
central pa
I don't think so. The minimum clearance to a wall perpendicular to the plane of the front door is 25.5" from what I read. While here they don't have "the other wall" of the alcove, why would they be allowed to go lower than that minimum clearance to such a side wall?
Clearances for an alcove are always greater because the heat is trapped in the alcove. This is just a standard install in a corner
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
A corner install being one where the stove is not parallel to any wall, not one like yours is now. For the current orientation, the C (to middle stove pipe) or A (to side wall) would be needed.

if you look at the Residential Installations, it says Roof Exit, Parallel, and Corner. My configuration is paranell, is it not?

This isn't an alcove because there isn't a roof. An alcove is like a little cave that the stove sits in, at least in my mind.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,166
central pa
if you look at the Residential Installations, it says Roof Exit, Parallel, and Corner. My configuration is paranell, is it not?

This isn't an alcove because there isn't a roof. An alcove is like a little cave that the stove sits in, at least in my mind.
No it isn't an alcove because it only has one sidewall. Many alcoves are full height ceilings
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
No it isn't an alcove because it only has one sidewall. Many alcoves are full height ceilings

So which letters do I use in my setup to know if the dang Ashford 30 will fit or not? My mind is about the blow-up because I am confused. I am a little paranoid of fires, and I am not going to authorize an install unless I am comfortable. Sorry if my frustration is coming through. My hubby is trying to help me understand and I don't think we are on the same page.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
This is what is called a parallel installation. The new stove will not fit in this space without some accommodations for the larger stove. Is the current stove an Englander 13-NC? I don't see how the salesperson would be able to say that "it's fine" without doing the homework of comparing existing measurements with the new stove's requirements. Can you post a shot of the paper with dimensions that you brought into the store?
 

Labmad49

New Member
Aug 8, 2021
41
Alaska
This is what is called a parallel installation. The new stove will not fit in this space without some accommodations for the larger stove.

Ok. So, this is a parallel install. What letters per their diagrams do I need to pay attention to? I am trying to understand what I need to look at, even with another stove all together.

What kind of modifications?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
Ok. So, this is a parallel install. What letters per their diagrams do I need to pay attention to? I am trying to understand what I need to look at, even with another stove all together.

What kind of modifications?
A & D. We need to know the measurements of what is existing first, but I suspect that the hearth may not be wide enough and that the flue location may not match with the new stove's location after its clearances are honored. If so, the hearth may need widening of the base or at floor level and the stovepipe may need an offset.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,166
central pa
A & D. We need to know the measurements of what is existing first, but I suspect that the hearth may not be wide enough and that the flue location may not match with the new stove's location after its clearances are honored. If so, the hearth may need widening of the base or at floor level and the stovepipe may need an offset.
The first line of clearances
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,166
central pa
This is what is called a parallel installation. The new stove will not fit in this space without some accommodations for the larger stove. Is the current stove an Englander 13-NC? I don't see how the salesperson would be able to say that "it's fine" without doing the homework of comparing existing measurements with the new stove's requirements. Can you post a shot of the paper with dimensions that you brought into the store?
Because they just want to sell the stove. It's the installers problem after that
 
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