Cold weather < than 20 degrees and stove Performance

[Doug Doty]

I am having crappy performance out of my stove, when I looked online here I was obvious it is a bit of an epidemic when reading through the threads. I see several people complaining of the same things I would have wrote. My stove is running very dirty, clumpy cakey ash buildup in 24 hours sometimes in 12 to 16 hours filling up my 2.5" deep fire pot.

Here is my question, I am getting good heat in the house but it is just colder outside so I don't expect it to be like it was at 35 degrees out but that part is understandable. It is the running dirty issue and all the caky clumpy ash as opposed to running clean for as much as 2-3 days when running the best.

I am wondering since I have only 36" of pipe out through the wall and an elbow turned up into a diffuser cap if the cold weather could be minimizing my chimney effect and giving worser performance than I might get in warmer weather. OR !! Maybe we are all just getting dirtier inside our stoves at this 1-2 tons of pellets time in the season and the air flow through them is slowing and causing these poor burn issues.

I'd like to hear opinions, in the mean time I just loaded mine up on a refg. cart, took it outside tore it completely down and used fans, leaf blowers x2 and compressed air and give it a cleaning back to new !! so I will see. The only thing I did not do and feel i might should have done is to pull the combustion blower fan and specifically cleaned the blades to make it run clean and up to full speed. It seems good but i think I will before the weekend is over.

What do you multi year pellet burners think. ??? And yes I did kind of change pellets, they are the same but the store was different, well sealed and coverall wrapped. This problem seemed to have started a few bags before the switch.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Must be good, must not get the mods mad, must help the newbies, we were that at one time..

Well if the high airflow devices did their jobs after you did your brush work and such, and you didn't mess with the damper if any, the stove should burn close to what it did when new.

I haven't had even a chance to look at one of the stoves that you are burning but that would be my opinion.

In other words a stove is only as good as its owner, if they take the time to make sure it gets its needed cleanings from stem to stern, the stove will burn like it did when new.

 

[Doug Doty]

It has been up and going 2 hours and is throwing more heat for sure. I very often measure the black steel top of my stove in the same 2 locations and it is 25 degrees hotter than it was so the cleaning was certainly needed from that perspective. Most likely by morening I will know if it is back to burning clean as it used to.

 

[LordmetalZ28]

My 5660 burns better the higher the fuel rate. When its brutal temperatures outside lower your expectations for heating equipment. I answered this question for years in hvac. There working hard doing the best they can

 

[mustangwagz]

Id say since you cleaned yoru stove it oughta be better now. I clean mine when i notice a performance difference. Ive had mine on 7 all week except for like a day total? Im Impressed beyond words with mine. It belches heat like crazy and keeps this ole dump 72 or higher. i clean mine out any day that it gets to 30 or warmer. I use the leaf blower and man does it make life easy and QUICK! Sounds like you need to invest in a super sucker and clean it regularly. Also keep your pellets small. That'll help also. By this i mean pay attention to their length. Shorter the pellet, the more that'll feed...and MORE THAN LIKELY (but now always) will make a hotter fire.

Maybe research a little bit too...not sure if Pellets only stoves can burn oyster shells or not? (chicken feed mixed in with them) do some reading, that oughta help ya a little.

 

[Doug Doty]

Ya mine too but the ability to burn the fuel completely has went to chit in the last 3 weeks. My heat output tonight is now tie'd with the best it has ever done after the haul it outside and get after it DEEP cleaning we done 3 hours ago. Like I said I measure the stove top temperature in the exact two same positions when I am running on high with great regularity and I get 200 degrees in the front center 1" back from the front leading edge when it is running it's best with these same pellets. I can also find a spot about 4" left of this and 3" further back that will get to 225 degrees at best. Mine seems to be the hottest in this second spot due to the way the pellets fall out into the pot, and that is due to the rotational direction of the auger in my opinion. Also as said we will see tomorrow id the ability to burn clean has returned along with this good cleaning. I have only 2 tons through it since new and unfortunately could not possible clean it the way I did indoors.

 

[mustangwagz]

i run sucker wide open, suck it out...then leave it idle and come in and do all my poking and banging...i even get a small air compressor with a homemade blow wand and remove plates and blow the crap around. Leaving the sucker idle pulls the dust out through. Super glad that whoever thought of it, posted about it..man is it the way to go!!

 

[Doug Doty]

My leaf blower was not conducive to the typical suck out deal so it was a dirty pain in the arse to get it real clean but i did in the end. I am going to find a seal between my stove pipe and my big stihl blower and get after it regularly after seeing the compaction inside that I had to clean out this time. Maybe I could extend this kind of deep clean to annual.

Back to my original question, .... Does the cold outside have any negative effect on the chimney to keep the air flowing and assisting the combustion blower to keep a strong combustion airflow.

 

[mustangwagz]

not sure on pellet stoves, but i know on my woodburner it always did..colder it got, the more it drafted. im sure the same would work for pellet stoves also, but not sure if/how the OAK would come into play.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The normal effect of cold on a pellet stove system is to provide more oxygen in the combustion air if there is an OAK installed, it can also cause a choke down (more ash precipitates out of the exhaust flow within the vent system) if the vent system is not regularly cleaned, it can also result in a hard to start situation due to the increased weight of air in the stack, tons of effects some good, some bad depending upon the entire stove system.

 

[mustangwagz]

The normal effect of cold on a pellet stove system is to provide more oxygen in the combustion air if there is an OAK installed, it can also cause a choke down (more ash precipitates out of the exhaust flow within the vent system) if the vent system is not regularly cleaned, it can also result in a hard to start situation due to the increased weight of air in the stack, tons of effects some good, some bad depending upon the entire stove system.

You said it can increase the amount of ash precipitates..assumingly this is due to the fact that the freak OAK air super cools the combustion air and actually causes it to burn dirtier?

i been looking at those Vent systems that the OAK is warmed by the exhaust. Thinking that may be a key to an overall warmer stove system.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You said it can increase the amount of ash precipitates..assumingly this is due to the fact that the freak OAK air super cools the combustion air and actually causes it to burn dirtier?

i been looking at those Vent systems that the OAK is warmed by the exhaust. Thinking that may be a key to an overall warmer stove system.

No it is assuming that the exhaust gases in the vent are cooling faster than they do at higher outside temperatures.

In the case of an OAK the cold more oxygen rich air usually increases the exhaust gas temperature enough to maintain the ash in solution (oh boy wait until folks try to figure that remark out) until it leaves the vent system.

 

[mustangwagz]

ok

No it is assuming that the exhaust gases in the vent are cooling faster than they do at higher outside temperatures.

In the case of an OAK the cold more oxygen rich air usually increases the exhaust gas temperature enough to maintain the ash in solution (oh boy wait until folks try to figure that remark out) until it leaves the vent system.

ok that makes more sense then. I just figured that allowing To cool of air into the stove combustin area would actualy over-cool the exhaust temps. I totally understand you'd want hotter exhaust which would mean a cleaner chimeny pipe. Same theory as a wood stove and a clean burning chimney. (no smoke, clean burn etc etc) however i thought that super cooled air would drop temps and casue flue gasses to cool to quickly in a pellet stove. As for wood stoves, dont secondary burn tubes draw inside (room temp) air? Just trying to get it all figured out. i have seen some secondary burn type stoves that use outside air. ( i do realize we're talking about 2 different beasts here..)

So the "pre-heated OAK air idea is infact not that great?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well I'll tell ya I have yet to have had any issues related to my OAK and it is a straight to the igniter and burn pot sealed all the way and separate from the vent. The stove has sucked -22air and the OAK has had a good layer of frost on it.

If I ever feel like swapping out venting maybe I'll try a preheat system, as for now it works and works well so if it ain't broke I ain't going to try fixing it.

 

[bags]

I'll take a shot at it Smokey. Colder air is more dense with oxygen. More oxygen results in a hotter more complete burn which will carry more stuff out the exhaust and or break the fuel down better. Now tell me how wrong I am.

 

[bags]

I have a preheated system on my P68 and am going straight cold air on the PC45 install. What I think the preheat mainly does is keeps the frost off of the inside fresh air pipe so many experience which can be handled with an insulation wrap. All it is interior moisture or condensation clinging onto colder metal. Like frost on the windshield.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'll take a shot at it Smokey. Colder air is more dense with oxygen. More oxygen results in a hotter more complete burn which will carry more stuff out the exhaust and or break the fuel down better. Now tell me how wrong I am.

Normally that is the case bags.

I suppose if someone decided to let off a CO2 powered fire extinguisher next to the air intake it would be both cold and oxygen depleted.

But who would do something like that oh yeah I know folks who don't maintain clearances between their vent termination and air intake.

 

[bags]

I see exactly where you are with this. That fresh oxygen rich air is not so oxygen rich if it's sucking in the warm oxygen depleted exhaust gases. Now is it? Kinda like running a hose off of the car's exhaust to preheat inside the car. Not real smart when it comes to things needing good oxygen.

 

[Doug Doty]

Just rechecked the stove top temps and it is setting new records for this stove at 210 front and center and 233 in my previously described hot spot. It looks to be burning better too. 5-6 hours in and still burning in a single layer in the bottom of the pot. I think it is taking well to the thorough cleaning.

 

[Doug Doty]

Hey Bags, you staying warm !!

 

[Lake Girl]

Been down to an honest -50 last year with the OAK and no issues with burn. The poor burn issue is usually the need to clean the exhaust pathway starting at the OAK - no obstruction through the stove and to the end of the exhaust vent...

 

[bags]

Hey Bags, you staying warm !!

Why yes Sir! Toasty. You being not far away and on the Ohio River also I am sure you are getting real similar frigid temps. Happy New Year Doug. We'll have to get together some time when the weather breaks.

 

[Doug Doty]

I am finding this to be the case here too, I was suspicious of it even though I do my daily cleanings. This stove sucks as there is no good way to clean it like it needs indoors. My only hope is to create enough vacuum with the leaf blower next time that I can agitate, brush and blow through heat exchanger compartment to get it clean and not make an unacceptable mess in the house..

 

[Doug Doty]

I was up there on a boat trip last fall with 3-4 other house boats and 3 guys from Rabbit Hash came over by John Boat to make a bar or beer run I was assuming, was you part of the gang

 

[bags]

No on the John Boat pirates. Have no idea who that could have been. Sounds borderline suicidal being on a John boat out there.