Hi Im new to this forum and I could sure use some help . Im thinking about upgrading my unit but I don't know if I should go with a gasser unit or a non gasser unit. My big concern here is burn time . From the information I have gathered it seems to me that most of the gasification units have an about an 8 hour burn time and some non gasification units also have a burn time of 8 hours depending on the size of the firebox. I currently Im using a Buderus G201 and it only has a burn time of about 4 hours with wood , I had an old Itasca 410 which had a burn of 8 hours plus on full on a full load . I went to Buderus thinking I was upgrading but , turned out tobe a mistake Im sure it burns coal well . I thinking about purchasing an EKO 25 Gassification Unit or a Royal 6526 Non Gassification unit both appear to have the same burn times .The buderus works great but the burn time is too short for me .
Comparsarison between a gassification and non gassification unit
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You'll get a fair amount of resistance here by targeting your purchasing around burn-time rather than efficiency and proper sizing (output).
My two cents would be to go with a non-gasser if your sole intent is to maximize burn times. Long burn times = low efficiency = significant idling. I think you'll create more problems than you'll solve by trying to push a gasser past the 6-8 hour mark on a load of wood. That EKO 25 really wants to be done burning a full load in something closer to 4 hours.
My two cents would be to go with a non-gasser if your sole intent is to maximize burn times. Long burn times = low efficiency = significant idling. I think you'll create more problems than you'll solve by trying to push a gasser past the 6-8 hour mark on a load of wood. That EKO 25 really wants to be done burning a full load in something closer to 4 hours.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Long burn times with a boiler isn't really the best thing to look for, as long burn times in a boiler = lots of idling, creosote production, and wood wastage. Time between burns is the better thing to aim for, and that is accomplished with storage & letting the boiler burn wide open until the wood is all gone. Can you do storage? Having said all that, some are running their gassers without storage - so maybe you'll get some feedback from someone with an Eko 25 who is doing that. But if I wasn't running storage, I'm pretty sure I would go gassifier over non-gassifier. Whereas if I had a non-gassifier that had good heat transfer ability & spent a lot of it's time idling, I would first add storage to it & see how that works out.
EDIT: stee just ahead of me, there ya go. No one best answer though, as usual.
EDIT: stee just ahead of me, there ya go. No one best answer though, as usual.
The Buderus you have is really designed for chestnut size anthracite coal although it will burn wood. I used to have one. It also has a higher BTU rating with coal as you'd expect. I would seriously look into coal availability in your area. A friend of mine uses a similar Stelrad cast iron boiler with coal and gets 10 hr burns without creosote. You can buy numerous seasons worth of coal for what a new boiler will cost and much less work. The decision gets tougher though if you cut all your wood off your property and don't have to buy any, that's why I went with a gasser.
maple1
Minister of Fire
A buddy of mine has an old memco. Burns wood in it, but at night he puts a shovel full or two, of coal on top of the bed of wood coals. Maintains 180 all night. Pretty slick how it works for him.
You might want to try that or straight coal before you throw out that money you spent on the bedarus.
You might want to try that or straight coal before you throw out that money you spent on the bedarus.
Not anthracite. It's a smokeless, odorless heat. Bitumous coal on the other hand can be very smoky and stinky.
I think that's more of thing with soft coal, like at the NY Steam Engine Association Pageant of Steam http://www.pageantofsteam.org/ in August. (That, the NYS Woodsmen's Field Days, and the Empire Farm Days should not be missed!)
If I get up on the roof and get downwind of the flue it has a slight sulphery smell to it, but there is definitely no smoke whatsoever. And when changing ash buckets there's some odor. The coal boiler makes more ash in one day than the wood boiler does in a month or more.
And yet, it is much more energy dense.
At one time, I looked around here for coal dealers, and couldn't really find much. Maybe I didn't look enough.
It's so dense you can store a five year supply in a 10'x10'x10' pile. If you can find a place put it and can get it off the truck you can deal to yourself 22.5 tons at a time.
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
If coal is in good supply where you are I'd try it for sure. The downside, as mentioned, it the ash. AS long as you have a good place to get rid of the ash you are ok. Anthracite does have a slight sulfur small when burning, but nothing huge in a small residential boiler. There are several people around here who burn anthracite.
It will store indefinitely, will not take on water and can't really go bad. Price in my area (far away from PA where it's mined) ranges between $310-330 a ton.
TS
It will store indefinitely, will not take on water and can't really go bad. Price in my area (far away from PA where it's mined) ranges between $310-330 a ton.
TS
I tend to agree with you on long burn times and idling and reduced efficiency , I guess my goal would be to find a unit with a large firebox capable of burning overnight so that there would at least be some coal left over in the morning where as I can just load up with wood , instead of having to start a fire over again in the morning . The problem Im having with my current unit is that there are no coals left over after 4-5 hours,and small firebox.
Try anthracite, the buderus manual explains how to light a fire starting with wood, load clean and burn it.
If you decide to replace it definitely get a gasifier whether you install storage or not.
If you decide to replace it definitely get a gasifier whether you install storage or not.
This year I switched from an energy mate non gasser to a biomass 40. No storage. I go every day 10-11 hours on a full load when I go to work. When the fan stops on a downdraft gasser it practically stops the burn. There is nowhere for the smoke to go until it starts the fan again. I no longer intend to install storage. It works well for me. I know I burn a little more wood this way but I don't have to start a fire every day. Looks like I will use 6-7 cords instead of 10+. Creasote has not been a big issue. Burn dry wood and you will be fine.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Have you had your turbs out yet? Just wondering how much creosote gets in the HX & tubes/turbs when idling - seems I remember that is common when burning with no storage but just how much might depend on the particular boiler model. Some might do better than others - the WGs seem to do OK, I think, gasifying without storage, and that sounds like about the same kind of operation. You're right on the dry wood - the effect of burning wood that isn't quite would likely show up worse with no storage.
No I haven't pulled the turbs yet. It's been too cold to shut it down. I'm sure it could use a cleaning.
I have posted quite a few times here that I have an EKO 25 and don't have storage. I have it outside in a small shed ( 6x6) . I have an 80k HX and almost never use it cause I stap;led up 1,000 ft 1/2" pex unde my family rm. kitchen , front entry ( tile floor) and somoe in my master bath to keep the tile floor a bit warmer. I just load at 7 AM, 4 PM and 9PM. I use about 8 logs per loading that avr. 4x4" x16" -18" long. This works well when the temp is set at 162-165*. The house stays between 66-71* all winter. If the sun shines it may get the family, kitchen sun room to 72* it is a very well insulated 3 bedroom ranch. I would kind of like storage but want it in the basement . No way to get that big of a tank down there. I guess in a way , my storage is heating up the 1,000 sq. ft of floor ( OSB floor with wood , carpet and tile ) This pulls a lot of BTU's when it is cold in the shoulder season. It takes a whole load just to get the floor to start warming up and another load for it to get to temp. Then it takes 10 hrs or so to get cold again so th efloor is actually putting out BTU's. I have no problem with creosote build up in the tubes. I believe I have had a few creosote fires right inside the firebox and one just today,, perhaps. This is why it has overheated but only happened a few times in 6 yrs. Try it this way ,, if you want. The 1,000 ft pex is cheaper than storage and very comfortable.
Im trying to do as much research as possible and one of my concerns is the longevity of this gasser units it seems that the technology is fairly new . I guess as much as I like technology I also like to keep things simple as well . I see that some of the older style boilers have a long life most you see for sale are mostly 20 plus years old and still in good shape . I hear about people that have this gasser units , are replacing refractory material, burn nozzles temp control boards computers etc. and that's while they re still available. As you well know how most of these companies sometimes go belly up and leave you stuck with a big hunk of iron that you cant even use as a regular unit .
All valid points,though the technology is more than 20 years old. The cast iron buderus you have is about as bullet proof as you can get which is another reason to look seriously at coal as I suggested earlier! Personally, my refractory looks like new from 5 years ago. I did have to get a new $250 controller this year which is minimal in the big picture. I had the old one fixed for $60 so I have a spare now.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Thing is, they have been doing this for years in Europe - we're just finding out about it & catching up over here. The tech isn't new - Tarm has been around for a long time even over here. My gasser has no controls or even a fan (just needs an aquastat or flue stat to start a pump), and I'm pretty sure I could cast my own refractories (they are very simple shapes & arrangement) if worse came to worse. But they still look good 2.5 years in, and I got a spare set when I got the boiler.
Have you checked out coal yet? That would seem to be the best way to get the most mileage out of what you have, without spending any money. Well, except for the coal.
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