Completely misaligned clay flue tiles - what now?

[Petrolhead90]

Hello,

We recently bought a new home and I was excited about the masonry fireplace. I believe it was built in the 1970's in Agoura Hills, CA. We have had several chimney inspectors come out and the issue seems to be that the clay flue tiles are incredibly misaligned. I am wondering why there are so many different pieces and not one long continuous clay flue lining. They don't appear cracked, just separated and misaligned at the seams.

What are my options for repair? I don't want to demolish the whole thing due to the exorbitant cost and expense. Plus, I would need a special permit to rebuild and I don't think you are even allowed to rebuild a brick chimney in CA anymore! I really want to preserve what is there. Do we have any options?

Thanks so much!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What is at the bottom of that chimney? What are you looking for as a burning experience? Open fireplace, insert? Wood burning or gas?

 

[Petrolhead90]

What is at the bottom of that chimney? What are you looking for as a burning experience? Open fireplace, insert? Wood burning or gas?

Attaching photos of the bottom of the chimney. We want to burn gas for now but would be nice to have the option for wood in the future. It is currently set-up for gas burning and the gas line works. Ty!!

 

[Whitenuckler]

Hello,

We recently bought a new home and I was excited about the masonry fireplace. I believe it was built in the 1970's in Agoura Hills, CA. We have had several chimney inspectors come out and the issue seems to be that the clay flue tiles are incredibly misaligned. I am wondering why there are so many different pieces and not one long continuous clay flue lining. They don't appear cracked, just separated and misaligned at the seams.

What are my options for repair? I don't want to demolish the whole thing due to the exorbitant cost and expense. Plus, I would need a special permit to rebuild and I don't think you are even allowed to rebuild a brick chimney in CA anymore! I really want to preserve what is there. Do we have any options?

Thanks so much!

You might want to convert from open wood burning, to something that uses a liner. Depends on what you are planning.

 

[Petrolhead90]

You might want to convert from open wood burning, to something that uses a liner. Depends on what you are planning.

I am okay installing a liner. Can that be done as is or do we need to demolish the clay flue tiles inside first?

 

[stoveliker]

Even then, the flue tiles evidently are not fixed in place. (they seem to be stacked in a much larger brick chimney without something on their outside to keep them from moving.
If one could add a liner, and the tiles move afterwards, the liner might get damaged.

I think the only way is to do a proper rebuild.
Or simply use class A chimney pipe. It's better overall in function.

Then again, I'm not a chimney expert...

 

[Whitenuckler]

I am okay installing a liner. Can that be done as is or do we need to demolish the clay flue tiles inside first?

That would depend on what your plan is for heat. Depending on the application, they can get a liner in, or worse case they remove the clay liner. You would need to decide what you want (other than an open hearth). Firewood insert, natural gas, propane ect. I don't think just because the tiles don't line up it's not usable. It would not clean well, but if you burn only once and awhile and burn good dry wood you should be OK. When you are in colder area's when you burn for heat 24/7 for 6 months it would not work.

 

[Petrolhead90]

That would depend on what your plan is for heat. Depending on the application, they can get a liner in, or worse case they remove the clay liner. You would need to decide what you want (other than an open hearth). Firewood insert, natural gas, propane ect. I don't think just because the tiles don't line up it's not usable. It would not clean well, but if you burn only once and awhile and burn good dry wood you should be OK. When you are in colder area's when you burn for heat 24/7 for 6 months it would not work.

Thank you, that is what I was thinking. Didn't chimneys used to be built with *just* brick and no flue lining at all and that was considered safe to burn in? The inspectors say this is not safe to use right now but I don't see why not, they smoke will still go "up" just in a meandering way. We obviously do not want to put our home at risk so I am getting as may opinions as possible. The first company quoted us $35,000 for a "Partial Chimney Rebuild/Retro Fit" 😱

The max we could conceivably spent on this repair is $10,000 but we are more comfortable $1,000 - $5,000. We would like to burn gas fire for now as my understanding is that does not get as hot. If we get a liner, then maybe we would also burn wood.

 

[Petrolhead90]

You might want to convert from open wood burning, to something that uses a liner. Depends on what you are planning.

So we cannot use that set-up with a liner? Would need to be a woodstove-type thing?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The issue with wood as is would be creosote forming behind the clay tiles. There’d be no way to clean it. It could ignite and chimney fires are, well, bad for homes.

There isn’t any worry of creosote with gas. We don’t know what the condition of the rest of the chimney is though.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

It is normal to have the clay be in 2 ft sections. One continuous liner would not be feasible for construction.
I would think the oval clay liner you have would probably restrict a new insulated stainless liner from sliding in there. For a company to break out the current clay and transform into a safe wood burning fireplace, that should be less than the 35k quoted. Not sure what prices are like where you are but here in southern CT (not cheap but not horrible), I would think a company could do this for maybe half that. Perhaps a fair bit less depending on exactly what you have there to work with.
It’s tough to know from the pics are there are actually gaps in your clay liner, but I agree that smoke getting behind the liner could be an issue with creosote forming, which could be a risk.
Yes, chimneys in older homes did not have clay liner, just the outer brick. However, there were a lot of chimney fires back then too. Things in the past weren’t always built better.

 

[Whitenuckler]

So we cannot use that set-up with a liner? Would need to be a woodstove-type thing?

It looks like you have an open hearth wood fireplace, and then a gas log conversion. If the chimney is not OK for gas, then you would then need to do a conversion. You could have a gas fireplace with a new liner. You would need to check out more fireplace stores, but make sure you get referrals and as many people in as you can to quote.

 

[bholler]

Thank you, that is what I was thinking. Didn't chimneys used to be built with *just* brick and no flue lining at all and that was considered safe to burn in? The inspectors say this is not safe to use right now but I don't see why not, they smoke will still go "up" just in a meandering way. We obviously do not want to put our home at risk so I am getting as may opinions as possible. The first company quoted us $35,000 for a "Partial Chimney Rebuild/Retro Fit" 😱

The max we could conceivably spent on this repair is $10,000 but we are more comfortable $1,000 - $5,000. We would like to burn gas fire for now as my understanding is that does not get as hot. If we get a liner, then maybe we would also burn wood.

Those clay tiles will need to be removed for pretty much any option to make that fireplace functional. The only option that wouldn't require it would be a gas insert. And pretty much anything other than a gas insert will probably push over 10k.

 

[Petrolhead90]

Those clay tiles will need to be removed for pretty much any option to make that fireplace functional. The only option that wouldn't require it would be a gas insert. And pretty much anything other than a gas insert will probably push over 10k.

Thank you! What is a gas insert?

 

[bholler]

Thank you! What is a gas insert?

A glass front gas stove that goes inside a fireplace with 2 small liners running through the chimney. One intake and one exhaust

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thank you! What is a gas insert?

https://www.napoleon.com/en/ca/fireplaces/products/fireplace-remodeling/gas-inserts

 

[Eman85]

I guess you understand you can't burn wood with that gas pipe in the firebox. I'd guess that since you had an inspection and they said it was no good I'd think insurance would not cover if you had a problem with a fire.
What is your end goal, do you want real heat or just ambiance?

 

[stovelark]

I'm with Bholler, the best choice would be a direct vent gas insert. Depending on your fireplace size opening, that will determine size of insert to install. Gas line is in place, and 2 3" liners would go up the chimney and top plate/cap would go up top. Then you have a direct vent (pulls combustion air from outside), true gas heater. You choose the interior liner, the face/front and the surround closes off the fireplace opening. Seems to be a good choice. Inserts to cost somewhere typically 7-10K total. Lots of good choices too. Hope this helps.