Considering a cat stove

[Bootstrap]

Ladies and Gents,

I have been burning my Drolet 1800i for nearly two seasons. So far, its been exactly what I expected out of it. As a non cat wood stove insert I was well aware I wouldnt get 12 hour burns out of it.
My interests on that have changed slightly. I would like to consider a Catalytic wood stove insert for next season. At this point I think I would benefit far more to have a consistent low heat versus bursts of high heat. My house is well built and well insulated for a 1968 house(top notch builder at the time). So a real hot stove isnt really needed. I almost always run the Drolet turned almost all the way down.

I would like to find a cat insert of similar dimensions to the Drolet as it barely fits in my fireplace.
Reference Drolet 1800i insert dimensions: https://sbiweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/4245/db03125_escape-1800-insert.pdf

I would also consider a free standing cat stove as well, I can either extend my hearth or buy a nice stove pad.

I appreciate suggestions on what stove to look for!

 

[ddddddden]

The better cat stoves are made by Blaze King and Woodstock.

Here are the BK options. No idea if any of them will fit your fireplace.
(broken link removed to https://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-inserts.html)

Woodstock does not offer an insert.

If you are up for extending your hearth, a freestanding stove will perform better and give you a lot more options.

 

[toddnic]

Bootstrap, I'm not familiar with all of the various catalytic wood stoves that are on the market. However, I am very familiar with Woodstock Soapstone Company, www.woodstove.com. I would definitely recommend checking out all of their stoves. My family has the Progress Hybrid and it heats our 2000+ sq. ft. very easily. I know that many on the forum like their Ideal Steel and the Absolute Steel.

 

[Woody Stover]

More information will help determine how much heat you might need. How many sq.ft. are you heating? What is the layout, and is the stove in the middle? If built in '68, no vaulted ceilings, foyers etc?
One reason I have a Woodstock is that they can rear-vent into the fireplace and there's no pipe visible. There are a few plate-steel stoves that can do that, like the Jotul F50 etc. What kind of look are you wanting, plain or something nicer? The Buck cat inserts are pretty utilitarian. Good basic stove, as cats go, but I've only run the 91. I liked the simplicity of the design as well. No bypass gasket to mess with, or bypass door tension to adjust, and a good door latch system. The blower got a bit loud in a small room when you turned it up (which I didn't need to do.)
Not sure what you prefer for ash removal but the Bucks have a serviceable ash dump, large opening with a hinged lid. Pan wasn't huge, I stuck a poker down the ash dump opening to push the ash from the dump area and distribute it around in the pan better. The Ws with the grate in the floor are the easiest, all you do is run a poker through the ash bed whenever you want more room in the box and ash is evenly distributed in the pan.
In cat inserts, there's also the BK Princess or the 25s. Not sure if you can load the 25s N-S, if not you may not be able to jam the box full E-W to the advertised volume without splits rolling into the glass. The Woodstocks have andirons to prevent that, so their actual usable firebox is a little smaller than stated. I'm not sure how easy it is to work on the BK inserts, but the Ws are pretty easy, partly because you have more room to work around a free-stander.
I've not heard if the ash dump system on the BK inserts is any good, or if they even have one. webby3650 uses the dump on the Ashford free-standing...

 

[webby3650]

More information will help determine how much heat you might need. How many sq.ft. are you heating? What is the layout, and is the stove in the middle? If built in '68, no vaulted ceilings, foyers etc?
One reason I have a Woodstock is that they can rear-vent into the fireplace and there's no pipe visible. There are a few plate-steel stoves that can do that, like the Jotul F50 etc. What kind of look are you wanting, plain or something nicer? The Buck cat inserts are pretty utilitarian. Good basic stove, as cats go, but I've only run the 91. I liked the simplicity of the design as well. No bypass gasket to mess with, or bypass door tension to adjust, and a good door latch system. The blower got a bit loud in a small room when you turned it up (which I didn't need to do.)
Not sure what you prefer for ash removal but the Bucks have a serviceable ash dump, large opening with a hinged lid. Pan wasn't huge, I stuck a poker down the ash dump opening to push the ash from the dump area and distribute it around in the pan better. The Ws with the grate in the floor are the easiest, all you do is run a poker through the ash bed whenever you want more room in the box and ash is evenly distributed in the pan.
In cat inserts, there's also the BK Princess or the 25s. Not sure if you can load the 25s N-S, if not you may not be able to jam the box full E-W to the advertised volume without splits rolling into the glass. The Woodstocks have andirons to prevent that, so their actual usable firebox is a little smaller than stated. I'm not sure how easy it is to work on the BK inserts, but the Ws are pretty easy, partly because you have more room to work around a free-stander.
I've not heard if the ash dump system on the BK inserts is any good, or if they even have one. webby3650 uses the dump on the Ashford free-standing...

My Princess also has an ash dump. It works well. Very few if any inserts have ash pans, no BKs do. It just sacrifices too much firebox space to be worth it. A few in the past did, treemont and Appalachian come to mind, huge insert with a tiny firebox..
As mentioned, if you want a true cat stove, Blaze King and Woodstock are the front runners. Lots of hybrids are popping up, and will dominate the market after 2020. With the exception of Woodstock, burn times and durability haven’t been strong points on these hybrids so far. If it were me, I’d extend the hearth and get a freestander in there if possible.

 

[jetsam]

Lots of hybrids are popping up, and will dominate the market after 2020.

Last I heard, nobody had a hybrid that was significantly better at particulates (or efficiency) than either a rate limited tube stove or a regular cat. Did that change?

 

[jetsam]

Ladies and Gents,

I have been burning my Drolet 1800i for nearly two seasons. So far, its been exactly what I expected out of it. As a non cat wood stove insert I was well aware I wouldnt get 12 hour burns out of it.
My interests on that have changed slightly. I would like to consider a Catalytic wood stove insert for next season. At this point I think I would benefit far more to have a consistent low heat versus bursts of high heat. My house is well built and well insulated for a 1968 house(top notch builder at the time). So a real hot stove isnt really needed. I almost always run the Drolet turned almost all the way down.

I would like to find a cat insert of similar dimensions to the Drolet as it barely fits in my fireplace.
Reference Drolet 1800i insert dimensions: https://sbiweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/4245/db03125_escape-1800-insert.pdf

I would also consider a free standing cat stove as well, I can either extend my hearth or buy a nice stove pad.

I appreciate suggestions on what stove to look for!

The drolet depth spec is +- 2 inches because you can install the insert 2" more or less flush.

What depth do you have?

 

[webby3650]

Last I heard, nobody had a hybrid that was significantly better at particulates (or efficiency) than either a rate limited tube stove or a regular cat. Did that change?

Most manufacturers are going to hybrid technology to meet 2020 regs. I think In testing it must be cleaner with the cat acting as a scrubber, not slowing it down to burn clean like a true cat stove. Can this be recreated in the real world? Not likely..

 

[weatherguy]

Tell us the size of your fireplace opening, we can then eliminate what wont work. I had the princess, great stove but my house is too big for it so I switched to a progress hybrid and it's better for my 2800sf.

 

[bholler]

Most manufacturers are going to hybrid technology to meet 2020 regs. I think In testing it must be cleaner with the cat acting as a scrubber, not slowing it down to burn clean like a true cat stove. Can this be recreated in the real world? Not likely..

Again there are already tube stoves on the market that meet the new regs.

 

[webby3650]

Again there are already tube stoves on the market that meet the new regs.

Ya, a few.. that have essentially elimanted low burns. Anyway, this particular thread is asking about cat stoves..

 

[bholler]

Ya, a few.. that have essentially elimanted low burns. Anyway, this particular thread is asking about cat stoves..

Yes it is asking about cats. But that doesnt make your statements accurate.

 

[webby3650]

Yes it is asking about cats. But that doesnt make your statements accurate.[/QUOTE
Yours aren’t either. What do you know about it anyway? How many brands are you familiar with enough to know what brand is doing or have done to comply? Regency?

 

[Hogwildz]

Ya, a few.. that have essentially elimanted low burns. Anyway, this particular thread is asking about cat stoves..

That's funny, the NC30 has lower emissions than both the BK King & The Princess, and burns just fine on low, as do most tube burners on low. That's why the lever has a high end and low end. Guess they'll do away with the low part based on your opinion.

 

[webby3650]

Yes it is asking about cats. But that doesnt make your statements accurate.

To say my statement isn’t accurate is not fair. Why do you feel the need to discredit others? You aren’t a fan of cat stoves, everyone knows that, you tear them down anytime you can. Most major players are introducing hybrid stoves, you can’t say that’s untrue.

 

[webby3650]

That's funny, the NC30 has lower emissions than both the BK King & The Princess, and burns just fine on low, as do most tube burners on low. That's why the lever has a high end and low end. Guess they'll do away with the low part based on your opinion.

That’s exactly what you’ll see happening. Have you seen the thread about the washers to reduce the secondary air in that sbi unit? There’s changes happening, some subtle, some not so much.

 

[Hogwildz]

That’s exactly what you’ll see happening. Have you seen the thread about the washers to reduce the secondary air in that sbi unit? There’s changes happening, some subtle, some not so much.

That is equivalent to burning on low then if it it limiting air. Hybrids may or may not take over. As with anything, consumers dictate that. If they don't sell for whatever reason, they will fall off. Better burning & technology is a good thing, but doesn't always work as planned in the sales area. To me, it's just more parts, and more parts makes for more troubles & expenses down the road. Especially if said parts are ridiculously priced. The manufacturers will have to weigh greed of cost for a new product with "new technology" vs. what consumers are willing to spend and maintain spending. Most of us are content with what we have, and works well. I suppose in 20 years or so the it may work out, as the newer stoves will be "old", and the price of the newer tech will stabilize, except for the newest tech. Just like everything else, buy yesterdays newest biggest, and be one step down from ridiculous prices.

 

[webby3650]

That is equivalent to burning on low then if it it limiting air. Hybrids may or may not take over. As with anything, consumers dictate that. If they don't sell for whatever reason, they will fall off. Better burning & technology is a good thing, but doesn't always work as planned in the sales area. To me, it's just more parts, and more parts makes for more troubles & expenses down the road. Especially if said parts are ridiculously priced. The manufacturers will have to weigh greed of cost for a new product with "new technology" vs. what consumers are willing to spend and maintain spending. Most of us are content with what we have, and works well. I suppose in 20 years or so the it may work out, as the newer stoves will be "old", and the price of the newer tech will stabilize, except for the newest tech. Just like everything else, buy yesterdays newest biggest, and be one step down from ridiculous prices.

I agree 100%! I really feel that manufacturers are going to put out a product that meets 2020 regs even if it’s subpar. It might be a repeat of the early 80’s, throw a cat in it to meet new standards.. I think they will catch up, but manufacturers aren’t above doing what it takes to meet the new regs and then later make revisions, with the consumer stuck in the middle. Bad dealer= A bad experience in these situations.

 

[Hogwildz]

I agree 100%! I really feel that manufacturers are going to put out a product that meets 2020 regs even if it’s subpar. It might be a repeat of the early 80’s, throw a cat in it to meet new standards.. I think they will catch up, but manufacturers aren’t above doing what it takes to meet the new regs and then later make revisions, with the consumer stuck in the middle. Bad dealer= A bad experience in these situations.

You got that right. And they surely won't put all the new goodies in from the start. They will milk it for all it's over over the years. Just like any other product. Till they get lazy , and just sell products as is, for as long as they can. Look at the new iphone. Ridiculous price, no real new tech. The became too big for their own good, and now rely on the name to sell the product, charge more, with a couple minimal upgrades that no one needs or wants. Biting them in the arse right now. And consumers have no problem jumping ship and buying another brand to get their wants filled. A company that takes employees, or consumer's loyalty for granted, will lose that loyalty if not returned. Many big corps just don't care to see this simple basic fact. All about the $$$$$.

 

[webby3650]

You got that right. And they surely won't put all the new goodies in from the start. They will milk it for all it's over over the years. Just like any other product. Till they get lazy , and just sell products as is, for as long as they can. Look at the new iphone. Ridiculous price, no real new tech. The became too big for their own good, and now rely on the name to sell the product, charge more, with a couple minimal upgrades that no one needs or wants. Biting them in the arse right now. And consumers have no problem jumping ship and buying another brand to get their wants filled. A company that takes employees, or consumer's loyalty for granted, will lose that loyalty if not returned. Many big corps just don't care to see this simple basic fact. All about the $$$$$.

Absolutely my man! All about those benjamins!

 

[Woody Stover]

few if any inserts have ash pans, no BKs do. It just sacrifices too much firebox space

The Buck pan wasn't very deep, and the back end was open to allow for the ashes to slide out. I could run four loads, then had to empty the pan.

 

[bholler]

To say my statement isn’t accurate is not fair. Why do you feel the need to discredit others? You aren’t a fan of cat stoves, everyone knows that, you tear them down anytime you can. Most major players are introducing hybrid stoves, you can’t say that’s untrue.

It is not that I dislike cat stoves at all. It is just that I don't think they are right for every situation. And yes some are introducing hybrids but others aren't. The fact is we don't know what will take over the market. People have to buy the products in order for them to take over. And I know plenty of people won't buy a stove that needs a cat replaced every few years.

 

[bholler]

I agree 100%! I really feel that manufacturers are going to put out a product that meets 2020 regs even if it’s subpar. It might be a repeat of the early 80’s, throw a cat in it to meet new standards.. I think they will catch up, but manufacturers aren’t above doing what it takes to meet the new regs and then later make revisions, with the consumer stuck in the middle. Bad dealer= A bad experience in these situations.

I agree completely and it is rediculous. These regs we're not just sprung on them they knew it was coming for a long time. Yet it seems some are scrambling to get their products to market in time.

 

[Bootstrap]

So far it looks like the BK Princess is the best stove for my situation.
This stove is not my primary heat. When the Drolet is going the oil boiler rarely kicks on.
Most would not consider my setup to be ideal. But I do. It keeps the living room warm. Surrounding rooms are good as I have a small circulator fan in the upper corner of a door. But the bedrooms upstairs are a bit cool which is the way I like it.

 

[bholler]

So far it looks like the BK Princess is the best stove for my situation.
This stove is not my primary heat. When the Drolet is going the oil boiler rarely kicks on.
Most would not consider my setup to be ideal. But I do. It keeps the living room warm. Surrounding rooms are good as I have a small circulator fan in the upper corner of a door. But the bedrooms upstairs are a bit cool which is the way I like it.

As long as it works for you it doesnt matter if others think it is ideal or not.