Considering two inserts- installation questions/other suggestions

[ctaco]

TI'm hoping to install a wood burning insert before winter really hits. I'm going between the Pacific Energy Summit insert or Lopi's Freedom Bay. I have a very big masonry fireplace so I'm looking for a large insert to fill in as much space as possible. The fireplace is actually in the basement which is completely open to the main level and I'll hopefully be using it as the main source of heat for the whole house (about 2000 sq/ft). I'm completely open to other suggestions but these two are the ones I've found that don't have the flush front (not sure if there's a term for that) and are big enough to look good in the space.

I have a few installation questions. Is there any benefit in installing a full flue liner instead of a direct connection with a block off plate? I read that a full flue liner is required in Canada (I'm in the US) but I didn't find any information on why.
Also, the lip of my firebox comes up one brick from the inside. When installing the insert would it make sense to level the inside with more bricks or is there another way to handle this? Most of the installation diagrams/videos I've seen are installing it into a completely flat/open firebox so I haven't seen any ways of addressing this situation. I'd imagine if I install it the way the fireplace is now that the back will sag down.

Most places near me want over $1000 for installation and I just don't see $1000 worth of work involved in it. Am I mistaken? My dad and me installed his wood burning stove with no problem and this doesn't really seem any different to me other than having to lift the insert into place (my fireplace is about 2.5 feet off the ground).

Any other recommendations for large stoves are more than welcome. My fireplace is approximately 46" wide, 21" deep and 25" high.

Thanks!

 

[BigCountryNY]

TI'm hoping to install a wood burning insert before winter really hits. I'm going between the Pacific Energy Summit insert or Lopi's Freedom Bay. I have a very big masonry fireplace so I'm looking for a large insert to fill in as much space as possible. The fireplace is actually in the basement which is completely open to the main level and I'll hopefully be using it as the main source of heat for the whole house (about 2000 sq/ft). I'm completely open to other suggestions but these two are the ones I've found that don't have the flush front (not sure if there's a term for that) and are big enough to look good in the space.

I have a few installation questions. Is there any benefit in installing a full flue liner instead of a direct connection with a block off plate? I read that a full flue liner is required in Canada (I'm in the US) but I didn't find any information on why.
Also, the lip of my firebox comes up one brick from the inside. When installing the insert would it make sense to level the inside with more bricks or is there another way to handle this? Most of the installation diagrams/videos I've seen are installing it into a completely flat/open firebox so I haven't seen any ways of addressing this situation. I'd imagine if I install it the way the fireplace is now that the back will sag down.

Most places near me want over $1000 for installation and I just don't see $1000 worth of work involved in it. Am I mistaken? My dad and me installed his wood burning stove with no problem and this doesn't really seem any different to me other than having to lift the insert into place (my fireplace is about 2.5 feet off the ground).

Any other recommendations for large stoves are more than welcome. My fireplace is approximately 46" wide, 21" deep and 25" high.

Thanks!

If they are adding a new liner, $1,000 is a pretty good price for the installation. An insulated liner is the best way to go - hands down. Most flues are too large for today's wood stoves. If memory serves me, the flue outlet on the Summit is 6". Most chimneys with clay liners are larger than this. With direct connection, there is too much volume in the flue and too great of a risk of flue gases cooling and condensing on the walls of the flue and forming creosote. Not to mention a strong downdraft will fill the room with smoke as it can overcome the direct connection. An insulated liner will give you better draft performance and keep the exhaust gases warmer, reducing the chance of creosote formation (provided you're burning dry wood and running your stove properly).

Speaking of wood, how's your supply of dry firewood?

Is it possible to post some pics of the fireplace? It will be easier for others to see exactly what you're describing and get a more accurate and detailed answer, as there are many on here who install stoves for a living.

I'm not familiar with the Lopi stoves, but I know that there are many on this forum who are very happy with the PE Summit. I don't think you could go wrong with either stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

Go with a liner, It makes your routine cleaning a snap, with a direct connect you will have to pull the insert out every time you brush the chimney = huge mess, still do the block-off plate with fire proof insulation in top, you will have a work horse on your hands. add an "oak" if you can, it will reduce drafts coming into the house further helping heat it. Like BC said, dry firewood is key, if your burning wet wood >20% moisture you will fight your insert all season.

 

[Mike M.]

I did a very similar installation in my last house. We had a large masonry fireplace in the basement and installed an insert and insulated liner. Did you remove the fireplace damper yet? This can be a dirty and somewhat difficult job. I actually broke a nice Milwaukee grinder removing mine. You will like the insert but as others have said, it will require very dry wood. I would consider moving any wood you have into the garage or basement right away to avoid fall rain or snow which will delay dry time.

 

[ctaco]

I have a good source for dry wood so I'm not too worried about that.

The damper is still in place. I haven't touched the fireplace yet. I'm waiting until I have an insert ordered.

The one place that quoted $1000 for installation said it included a "basic" liner kit. I'm thinking I'll probably need more than that and it'll be a hefty upcharge. They won't come look at the space until I agree to purchase from them so who knows what they'll say once they get here. The inside of the chimney does look a good deal bigger than 6" so I can see why a full liner would make more sense, especially for cleaning.

Here are the pictures I have. If any other pictures would be helpful please let me know.

 

[BigCountryNY]

Thanks for posting the pics of your fireplace. I see what you're talking about with the lip. You could fill it in with bricks, but you could also just put in a couple of large pavers that are the same height as the lip so that you have a level surface. Probably the biggest challenge that I see is that there will be no support for the front part of the firebox because your hearth is so much lower than your fireplace opening. In my opinion, it would not be safe to have it just hanging over the edge with no support underneath it. Then you'll need to ensure that you have 16" of hearth protection from the door outward from the stove. I'm guessing that since this is in the basement, it's just cement under the tile? If so, you should be all set in that regard. This time of year all the installers are usually swamped, so I'm not surprised that they are hesitant to come out without a commitment.

I would ask what the installer means by "basic" liner and see if it includes insulation or not. If not, then see how much more he would want to install an insulated liner. It should only be a couple hundred dollars more depending on how tall your flue is. It's a ceramic insulated blanket that gets wrapped around the liner with a wire mesh that goes over it to protect it during the installation and help keep it in place.

 

[ctaco]

We've been trying to figure out what to do about the hearth. The floor is slate tile with cement underneath.

I believe the place that quoted $1000 for installation didn't include any insulation. I'll ask how much more it'll be from each place.

We were thinking of just building up the brick around the outside to give the stove something to sit on. I'd install an actual floating hearth but can't find much information on how to do that. All I can find is information on how to make a mantle.

Also, one installer said they could fill the area between the surround panel and fireplace with something (the Vermont castings insert with the surround panels is 1/8" too small). Have you seen anything like this done? He suggested a black filler panel or a stone surround.

 

[BigCountryNY]

Building up the brick on the outside would most likely be the easiest thing to do and look the most aesthetically pleasing.

For the "filler" that you're talking about, it might be black stove board which is available and used as a hearth pad in many cases if a free standing stove is being placed on a combustible surface (although this depends on the R value rating for floor protection for each stove. http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/imperial-type-2-stove-board-36-in-w-x-52-in-h-black

Personally, I think the stone surround would look better. It's really a matter of taste though

 

[Dmitry]

You can use flush insert so it's not gonna hang in the air. FPX has one, Regency has one as well