Considering your advice and not my brick layer!

[CamaroCrazyChris]

Ok, yesterday I posted about how I got an Englander 13-NCI Wood Stove Insert. It arrived yesterday and I started tearing out the face brick of what I thought was my fireplace only to find a Pre-Fab fireplace. I was told by my bricklayers foreman who has installed many inserts that it would be fine to construct a hearth and run a chimney liner up my existing Pre-Fab Zero Clearance Flu. I am now staring to second guess the idea and was wandering this....
I want the look of a fireplace in my home, but I want the efficiency of a wood stove. Can I have both? In the same setting???? My idea is this, I talked to englander and they said they would pay for return shipping of my unit so long as I purchased a new unit. I am considering going with the 13-NC which is basicly identicle to my current 13-NCI except it has a stand/legs. I want to construct a hearth out of non-combustable materials in the center of my living room on only the inside wall between the living room and the kitchen, (currently my pre-fab sat in the corner of an outside/inside wall in the living room).
Here is the big one.... Can I install a surround around the stove so it looks from the front as if I have a fireplace??? I am assuming I will need to run Class A piping from the stove up through the attick to the cap above the roof, right? Will I need to install a blocked off dead space in the attic as well?
Basicly I want to encase my stove with non-combustable materials, (metal studs/durock/then flagstone), so that from the front it looks like a well finished fireplace. I dont mind so much the stove's ass sticking out into the kitchen as it will only help to heat the home, but if I wanted to could I install a wall around the back of it as well so long as its made out of non-combustable materials and has proper clearences?

Sorry for all the hasle everyone, I am just really bummed about loosing the look of a fireplace in my home. I really want a wood stove but I dont want the look of a bulky black or fancy box in my home.
Thanks again for any help!

 

[ansehnlich1]

Wow, that's great that Englander will do a swap. I think you're on the right track here. Before you dive into the project hang for a spell on here and ask questions about the install.

You'll be able to build a surround if you want AS LONG AS you stay within the installation code as per the manual of your stove. You will find there are different clearances based on different installations, some clearances change if you are going to do an "alcove" install etc.

You'll want to make sure your hearth is constructed properly also, according to the stove manual.

Also, you'll get great advice on how to install your class "A" chimney.....

Most important thing is to go according to the stove manual in all construction.

Pictures go a long way to help folks on here give good advice.

 

[Mr_Pither]

oops, nevermind. Saw your previous post after I posted here.

 

[Shari]

Have you looked at the hearth.com photo gallery to see how awesome free standing stoves can look when installed with brick or stone backgrounds? Take a look here: https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/index.html

Shari

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

Wow, that's great that Englander will do a swap. I think you're on the right track here. Before you dive into the project hang for a spell on here and ask questions about the install.

You'll be able to build a surround if you want AS LONG AS you stay within the installation code as per the manual of your stove. You will find there are different clearances based on different installations, some clearances change if you are going to do an "alcove" install etc.

You'll want to make sure your hearth is constructed properly also, according to the stove manual.

Also, you'll get great advice on how to install your class "A" chimney.....

Most important thing is to go according to the stove manual in all construction.

Pictures go a long way to help folks on here give good advice.

Well, its sounds great that I am at least getting a better (POSITIVE) response on this one I have an email into Englander to see what they say abot the install as well, and to get some specs from them based on my install. I would think that if its a non-combustable material such as stone/cement board you could but it right up to the unit since there is no way for it to catch fire. I guess though if I need to leave a gap around the unit I could close it off with a metal flashing. Also, I know im a newb but I didnt quite get what you meant with "hang for a spel"???
Thanks for the info and if anyone has some ideas on the install as well as chimney ideas using a Class-A chimney let me know. I will have about 3 weeks to prep for this install if I do the swap.
Thanks again everyone!

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

Have you looked at the hearth.com photo gallery to see how awesome free standing stoves can look when installed with brick or stone backgrounds? Take a look here: https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/index.html

Shari

I did like some of the stone backs that some people have built however the big reason for fully enclosing it is to eliminate the sight of a black box standing there with a pipe going to the cieling. I really liked the ones that where.... Inserts! LOL! Like I said in my original post, I believe this would work as long as I keep a manufacturers clearences from combustable materials. I know in their manual on the 30-NC it states that with their metal heat shield that mounts to the unit you can be up to 8" from combustables... However, thats combustables, what about stone and non-combustables?
Thanks for the link Shari, its definately going to give me a few good ideas for a look if this becomes a go.
Chris

 

[Pagey]

The problem with something like stone/brick, is that heat will transfer right through it to something combustible behind it! That's why, for example, NFPA 211 requires a 1" air space between a wall shield made of noncombustible material and a combustible surface. All that heat will go right through brick and can cause 2x4s, again, for example purposes, to combust or undergo pyrolysis.

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

The problem with something like stone/brick, is that heat will transfer right through it to something combustible behind it! That's why, for example, NFPA 211 requires a 1" air space between a wall shield made of noncombustible material and a combustible surface. All that heat will go right through brick and can cause 2x4s, again, for example purposes, to combust or undergo pyrolysis.

Thanks Pagey! The Hearth and the surround would be completly new construction, so I can design it however I wish with as many safety's as I wish.
Get this though.... Englander has just returned my call and I just spoke with Warren from there and they are telling me that they have no problem with me installing my insert as I originally wanted which was build a non-combustable pad for it to sit on, and then construct a box with Brick and Mortar for the unit to slide into. He said I could then use my existing flu as long as I used an adapter to scale it down to the 6" pipe or I could do as I originally wanted and run a stainless Flex-King Liner down the existing flu to the stove.
CONFUSING!
Whats even more.... after that call from Englander I called my firechief and he said as long as its installed within the manufactures clearence specs they have no problem clearing it for inspection. I explained to him that on the front of the directions it states, "For masonry Fireplace Instalation Only" He then told me that as long as I was building a non-combustable Hearth and Housing and again, maintained manufactures clearence specs for the face of the unit, that if Englander ok'ed me for what I wanted to do that it would be fine for them.

I just wish everyone would agree so that I can feel better about the whole thing! On something like this when it concerns fire and safety, I second guess everything unless everyone is agreeing.

Thaks again all!

 

[Hurricane]

The quick question is " is Englander willing to put it in writing " if so great if not their word will not help.

 

[annette]

I believe there are inserts that are OK for a zero-clearance fireplace. I think Osburn makes one, but others here will know and hopefully chime in.

When I shopped for a home, I really wanted a fireplace, but the "right" house didn't have one. Like you, I thought a wood stove was odd-looking, and the pretty enameled ones were wildly expensive. I got over that attitude as I started to look at more and more photos, and because the BF had used a woodstove and knew how much warmer they were than a normal fireplace. I'm so glad I did, because I have a 600-degree metal box sitting 5 feet away from me keeping me toasty warm, and my gas heat almost never comes on.

Let's say you're successful in figuring out how to close in your stove with a fireplace-looking surround. What I think you'd have then is something that gives you about as much warmth as a zero-clearance fireplace.

So, I think you should keep the zero-clearance fireplace you have now and just use it, or shop for an insert that will fit in it. You can resell the Englander or pay to ship it back, and chalk that loss up to insufficient research into what you had in your house. The return shipping probably won't cost as much as the materials and time to make a false fireplace.

I hope that whatever you choose is safe, and makes you happy. To me, more warmth=more happiness, but, I'm a girl

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

The problem with keeping my zero-clearance fireplace is that the thing is beyond repair, I have already taken the unit out as using it any further would be a safety issue.
I agree with Englander putting that in writing, doubt they would do it. I currently have calls in to several chimney/fireplace contractors that also do inspections to see what they would consider acceptable. I figure, if anyone should know what to do it would be them. The only problem with working with them is they want to provide little if any information on what to do because they want to be the ones to do it...... Wait.......
Great Just got off the phone with the owner of a Chimney Service Company that also does inspections and they told me that I can put in a free-standing stove like the 13-NC and build a non-combustable trim around it to make the look I am going for. He also stated that I need to run the Class-A Chimney pipe like I stated earlier and that I would be within code! FINALLY SOME PEACE OF MIND AND SANITY!

So looks like I am set to do this install... Again, if anyone has any hints or suggestions it is greatly appreciated
I believe I am going to build a face around the front of the stove to gve the look of a real firplace on the living room side and then on the back side (kitchen side) I may leave it open for the radiant heat or I might enclose it (with non-combustable materials) and put in a blower unit to move the heat out from the back of the unit into the kitchen and down the hall so I am not wasting any of my heat.
Suggestions???

 

[Hurricane]

As the rule on this board, we need pics or it did not happen

I saw the last pics but progress and finish pics would be great.

Good Luck !

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

As the rule on this board, we need pics or it did not happen

I saw the last pics but progress and finish pics would be great.

Good Luck !

Here you are sir!

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

The top two on the left are where the old zero-clearance unit was, the tube us just resting on the floor and will be removed and hole in cieling boarded up today (it got cold last night!), Top right picture is from the hallway looking at the front door and kitchen area. Bottom two are from the living room looking at the kitchen.
I would like to install my free-standing stove on the end of the wall dividing the kitchen and living room. I want to build the non-combustable enclosure around the unit on the end of the wall and have the face of the stove about 3-5" into the living room and the hearth the proper amount past that, I will install the bulk of the enclosure or the plain but of the stove if I decide not to enclose it in the kitchen side. It would be great to make an enclosure up to the cieling as that would not only hide the chimney pipe but would also make a nice slot for the fridge to fit into. Then I would install the blower assembly facing the hall to blow heat down the hallway.
Thanks again, hope this helps with any ideas! Need any additional info just let me know.

By the way... We dont normally live like this.... We are living in the middle o an entire house remodel. I have done all the work myself and will be sure to give additional pictures as the project progresses.

 

['bert]

CCChris, sounds to me like you want a Built In Stove. The look of a fireplace and the functionality of a stove. Seeing as you are willing to do the construction around the unit anyway perhaps you would like something like this:

http://www.securitychimneys.com/pages/fireplace/high_BisPanorama.asp?country=ca

 

[ansehnlich1]

'hang for a spell" means, hang around on this website for a little bit of time" and you'll eventually get the answers you are looking for.

If you go the freestanding stove route make sure you have a clear path through your ceiling/roof for the chimney. There a times where a hearth is built and then when the chimney is installed a JOIST, or HEADER, or DUCTWORK or something is in the way....

Also, check your floor support for the weight of the stove+hearth+whatever masonry surround you plan to build. Remember woodstoves radiate some serious heat, closing them in may have an effect on heat circulation.

Keep asking questions, take your time, and you'll have a safe/efficient install when you're done.

Check your plans with the code officer/inspector 'cuz he/she's the one that'll pass it or not when you're done.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Chris,

we need to talk , i just sent you a PM

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

'hang for a spell" means, hang around on this website for a little bit of time" and you'll eventually get the answers you are looking for.

If you go the freestanding stove route make sure you have a clear path through your ceiling/roof for the chimney. There a times where a hearth is built and then when the chimney is installed a JOIST, or HEADER, or DUCTWORK or something is in the way....

Also, check your floor support for the weight of the stove+hearth+whatever masonry surround you plan to build. Remember woodstoves radiate some serious heat, closing them in may have an effect on heat circulation.

Keep asking questions, take your time, and you'll have a safe/efficient install when you're done.

Check your plans with the code officer/inspector 'cuz he/she's the one that'll pass it or not when you're done.

Oh, yes... Palnning is everything! The new location I want for the stove is actually where the I-Beam runs on the floor and its also where there is an I-Beam support right undernieth that so weight should not be an issue. I already planned on planning the exact location of the stove based on where the Pipe will drop through between the cieling joists so that should not be a problem either. Also.. All ductwork in my house runs between the loor joists.
Thank you or your input and things to watch out for. Here is an idea, I wonder if it would be possible if I enclosed it up to the cieling to vent some of the heat coming off of the back to my ductwork??? Wouldnt be too dificult, just a thought!

 

[GatorDL55]

Any movement forward on the project over the last two weeks?

 

[CamaroCrazyChris]

Any movement forward on the project over the last two weeks?

Unfortunately no, we have decided to move forward with our remodel and not include a fireplace for the moment. Once we do decide to go forward with a fireplace we will be choosing the Opel 3. I will post when we decide to make our move.
Thanks to all

 

[GatorDL55]

Don't I see an Englander stove sitting on the floor in one of your pictures? I thought that you would just use that.