Controlling stove using damper actuator and wall thermostat

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Doug Morford

Member
Dec 10, 2012
89
Moscow, ID
Warning: This shouldn't be done on stoves that, when turned all the way up, will overfire.

I have a BKK stove that I'm controlling with my wall thermostat. Just posting this as information for others. There are other threads on this, but none that I thought were good solutions.

I used a Belimo actuator, and Belimo positioners and linkages. The actuator I used was model NMB24-SR. This was the cheapest/smallest actuator they sell that can be controlled with the variable dials and connect to the control linkages. The linkage kit I used was part number ZG-NMA. The damper crank arm I used to connect to the control rod on the blaze king is part number KH8. The Positioner dials are part number SGF24.

My thermostat is a Nest. I actually hate the Nest thermostat for multiple reasons, but I have worked around all of its bugs. The main reason I'm sticking with it is because it has 3 stage control. The Ecobee, which is better, has only 2 stage control. One of the Honeywell smart thermostats might have 3 stage control, but I haven't checked. I'm using the first 2 stages to control the stove. The first stage sends 24vac power to one of the dial positioners (Stage 1 dial). I have this dial set to open the stove to about 40% open. Stage 2 sends 24vac to the stage 2 dial, as well as to a relay with a 24vac coil. This relay switches 120vac power to the fans on the stove. I have the stage 2 dial set to open the stove to 100% open. Stage 3 turns on the electric central air furnace while leaving stage 2 on. I have a 3rd dial positioner that I have wired to override the other 2 positioners if it is set to a higher position than them (it overrides them when they aren't receiving power from the thermostat as well). I use this override positioner to turn the stove to 100% open during loading without having to mess with the thermostat on the wall. Turns out the actuator has a button that lets you manually move the control arm though, so the override positioner wasn't necessary. But I still use it because it's easier. When none of the 3 dial positioners are engaged, the actuator returns the stove to 0% open where the dial on the BK is at exactly horizontal.

I control the Nest thermostat using the SmartThings app. I do this because the two apps that are supposed to be used to control the Nest are complete garbage. And yes, there are two; it's stupid. The SmartThings app is on both my wife's and my phones. I've set it to turn the thermostat to 50 when we're both further than 1/4 mile from our house, and to run a heating schedule when one or both of us are home. The heating schedule is 68 during the day and 63 at night.

My reason for doing this: The BK easily runs for 24+hrs on one load. I load every evening. I used to only turn the stove up over 0% idle when it felt cold in the house. I only needed to do this when it was below around 20 outside. The temperature inside would fluctuate some, but it was tolerable... to me. My wife on the other hand started to consistently turn the stove up in the morning, forget to turn in down, then take the kids to school and go to work. That was fine and the stove still always had coals left in the evening at loading time, but it was eating through more wood than necessary. This has completely solved the issue, and has been flawless. If she want's it hotter than 68, she turns up the thermostat, then it automatically sets down to 50 when she leaves the house. Plus the temperature in the house doesn't swing at all when we're home. It's fantastic.

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Is the thermostat on the stove disengaged? What is the operation during a power outage while no one is in the house?
 
All BKs, even the older non-cats as far as I'm aware, are thermostatic. This is a new BK though.

The thermostats on BK stoves don't moderate heat output based on room temp, they moderate air input to maintain healthy combustion for a set heat output. I'm achieving heavy moderation of heat output using an additional thermostat that reads room temp to control the damper actuator. The BK thermostat is still in place doing its thing. This could probably be done on any stove though, but maybe with somewhat less success.
 
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Is the thermostat on the stove disengaged? What is the operation during a power outage while no one is in the house?
The actuator is controlling the stove like a human would, by turning the dial on the stove.

In a no-power situation, the actuator freezes at it's current location. So if the power goes out when it's at 100%, It's going to get hot in the room. BK's can't overfire though. They are designed so they can run at 100%. It will burn through the wood pretty quick though. During a prolonged outage, I would push the release button on the actuator that allows manual control, and run it in the traditional way.

I would definitely not do this on a stove that has the ability to overfire when turned all the way up.
 
It sounds like this is a BK-specific modification that wouldn't work well with other stoves. The burn cycle is different in a non-cat and room temp is too much of a lagging indicator during the initial combustion phase.
 
It sounds like this is a BK-specific modification that wouldn't work well with other stoves. Or would it?
I don't see why it wouldn't work with other stoves. But maybe you're right that it wouldn't work as well or might not be a good idea with other stoves.
 
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It sounds like this is a BK-specific modification that wouldn't work well with other stoves. The burn cycle is different in a non-cat and room temp is too much of a lagging indicator during the initial combustion phase.
The idea would have to be re-engineered with other stoves.
 
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The idea would obviously have to be re-engineered with other stoves. The tools I used I think would be interesting to anybody, not just bk users.
In order to work with other stoves, the inputs need to be different and so would the controller. A controller that takes high temp probe readings from the flue and stove top plus room temp would be better. This would control a linear actuator. We had a past thread on this that I will look up.
 
Does modification to a stove void home insurance?
 
The idea would obviously have to be re-engineered with other stoves. The tools I used I think would be interesting to anybody, not just bk users.
Most stoves are not self limiting. That adds a safety concern. Maybe on a VC thermostatic control?
 
Does modification to a stove void home insurance?
Yes but the way this is done it's not really a modification it's just automated control of the stoves existing thermostat. So I am really not sure how it would be looked at. If the stoves thermostat was replaced it absolutely would void listings warranty etc etc.
 
In order to work with other stoves, the inputs need to be different and so would the controller. A controller that takes high temp probe readings from the flue and stove top plus room temp would be better. This would control a linear actuator. We had a past thread on this that I will look up.
This actuator is either linear or rotational, so could be used in any application of this type. I have it installed as a rotational.

If flue reading were needed to make this work, or make it safe, I wouldn't do it.
 
Yes but the way this is done it's not really a modification it's just automated control of the stoves existing thermostat. So I am really not sure how it would be looked at. If the stoves thermostat was replaced it absolutely would void listings warranty etc etc.
That's how I see it. I'm not using the stove in a way that the manufacturer didn't intend.
 
I (probably falsely) assumed that modern stoves were safe to run at the max setting. If that's not true, then this probably isn't a good idea for most.
Absolutely not. Blaze king is one of the only ones
 
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I (probably falsely) assumed that modern stoves were safe to run at the max setting. If that's not true, then this probably isn't a good idea for most.
Most would overfire run this way.
 
With a stove that doesn't have an existing thermostat, like the bk, I think a much lower setting (my stage 1 is at 40%) would be required to buffer reactions and give the thermostat time to read room temp as a result of turning up the stove.
 
you should sell these as a kit...

Would only be good for Blazeking stoves though since they are ctually engineered well and cant overfire. On my VC Encore im not sure what would happen if the stove was full of wood and the air got left 100% open, would likely melt some stuff and burn the house down. Since pretty much everyone who owns a vermont castings (myself included) cant seem to get them to run right it would be double tough to do it automatically!
 
I agree that it is double tough to assemble a controlling system. I have accomplished this and I am very happy with the results. My design incorporates a dual circulation control, an Air intake duct motorize damper and a control. Decisions and actions are base on reading the stove's surface temperature as well as a thermal limit sensor on the stove pipe. The concept of upper limit and lower limit thermal control is not new. Doing a 100% DIY system is challenging. I can provide the building block and flow if you wish. I would not recommend altering the stove in any way.