Converting heatilator to Englander 13-NCH (my first post)

[Trey_G]

Hi all!,

I just came in from outside with my kids and wife from attempting to roast marshmallows in a burn barrel fire...WRONG. It got so hot that they couldn't get their hands, holding the stick, close enough, so it got me concerned. The fire was actually full of little pieces from me using a chop saw to cut recently split 20" oak to 17 3/4" pieces, as I plan on updating a heatilator fp to an englander, as stated in title.

So, as I don't want to burn my house down, I figured I'd consult some of you more experienced members. I'm an engineer, and I grew up building homes, so, my fear is in my own ignorance of the subject matter. We don't install a whole lot of stoves hear in coastal SC. We currently live in a 2015 singlewide, as we plan on building later, but we've made a decision to purchase more land while our area is still rural, and postpone building for a few years until that's paid off. So, along with that decision, we decided to put a wood stove because honestly, the fp might look nice, but the heat it throws off is a joke, and it can't be upgraded with a blower (per heatilator customer service).

The Plan: When it finally warms up a bit, I'll take the hearth, wall panels etc. off, remove the heatilator and chimney pipe up to the ceiling, stuff some insulation up in in and duct tape it s hut. As there is already a hole cut in the ceiling, I'm going to do my best to use that hole, take a plumb bob down the the ground to check my side clearances to see if I can go straight up or if I need to 45 it to gain my clearances. I forgot to mention the fp is in a room corner. If I am able to go straight, I plan on using 1 sheet of the soundproof mineral board (300 something...), in two layers 48" x 48" centered and surrounding the hearth clearances, (I believe it is 8" to the sides, and 16 to the front). On top of that, I'll put a layer of durock and tile. I'd use the 5 layers of durock if it wasn't a MH, need to minimize the weight as best as possible.

I'm a little unsure about the side clearances and do I run single run up to the ceiling box? That is, if there is one. Not going to trust that joe blow did it right the first time. I'm really interested in constructive criticism and comments. Weight reduction is obviously important, we plan selling and moving this MH when we eventually build. I did a ton of research and I think I chose a good stove for a 1276 sft, drafty home. Did I? This won't be the only source of heat, I think it'll be more "heat assist", and emergency heat. I'll stop for now as i'm not familiar with forums and whether I'll get any replies, If I do, Thanks in advance!

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome the hearth.com. Folks will be along shortly to help ya through the project.

Get your camera ready. Pics will be requested of the installation area.

 

[Tar12]

What type of wood stove? My BK Princess Ultra is a corner install in a double wide and I to got rid of the poor excuse of a fireplace and used the existing vent hole to run my class a straight up...I put down 3/4 plywood and a hearth pad as it only requires ember protection...I easily exceed all clearance requirements...this spring I will decide how I am going to finish this area out.

 

[begreen]

It would be easier if you chose a stove more mobile friendly that had an ember protection only hearth, close clearances and worked well on a shorter flue system.

 

[Tar12]

My Princess is mobile home friendly and approved and only requires ember protection...I am running good on 13 ft of pipe and no problems..he is in a single wide and may want something smaller but I don't feel over powered with my set up...

 

[Trey_G]

Welcome the hearth.com. Folks will be along shortly to help ya through the project.

Get your camera ready. Pics will be requested of the installation area.

Thanks Brother Bart!

 

[Trey_G]

What type of wood stove? My BK Princess Ultra is a corner install in a double wide and I to got rid of the poor excuse of a fireplace and used the existing vent hole to run my class a straight up...I put down 3/4 plywood and a hearth pad as it only requires ember protection...I easily exceed all clearance requirements...this spring I will decide how I am going to finish this area out.

I chose the 13 nch as it is mh approved with the pedestal. I didn't want to overpower my singlewide with a super hot stove, and It seemed easy to get, and I could put 18" logs in, which most of what I'd cut was 18". It also seemed reasonable at $700.00. I'm willing to be talked out of it, haven't purchased it yet. I'd like an overnight burn (who wouldn't?). The living room is about 15x15, with an open floor plan to the kitchen on one side and a hall on the other. the 13 nch is for 1200-1800 sft, i believe. But, again, I'm a newbie and hear to learn...

 

[Trey_G]

It would be easier if you chose a stove more mobile friendly that had an ember protection only hearth, close clearances and worked well on a shorter flue system.

Hmmm, please see my reply to tar12, I'm trying to decide. I'd like it sized for my 1286 sft home, but I think it'd be disappointing too small, with having to constantly load it, but I'm afraid too big would be annoying with having to constantly open the windows etc.. and potentially scary. If I were installing a stove in my forever home, I'd overbuild it, like everything else I build. But, as I'm limited by weight, and really don't want to break the bank for this project, I just want "safe enough". I started out looking at cheaper stoves but after reading the forums, decided on the Englander as it seemed a better, USA made brand. But, I really have no knowledge of the many brands out there.

 

[Trey_G]

This is a photo of the area currently...

 

[begreen]

The 13NC is about right size-wise and It's a good stove and a good value. It will require 15-16' of straight up flue to draft well and an R=2.0 hearth.

 

[Tar12]

Trey...what kind of winter temps are we talking in SC? How well insulated is your place? Can a non-cat stove be choked down enough to burn safely with out overheating your rather small area? I know nothing of the 13 NC...just wondering...

 

[kennyp2339]

The biggest hurdle to jump over is the ceiling clearance, I'm not sure if your stating that if your able to go straight up with the chimney pipe because the side clearances meet the clearance between walls if that means the stove will be tucked into the old cavity of the heatilator, I don't think you have enough room for an alcove type install, but I'm only going off the info that was posted.

 

[Trey_G]

It would be easier if you chose a stove more mobile friendly that had an ember protection only hearth, close clearances and worked well on a shorter flue system.[/QUOT

Trey...what kind of winter temps are we talking in SC? How well insulated is your place? Can a non-cat stove be choked down enough to burn safely with out overheating your rather small area? I know nothing of the 13 NC...just wondering...

Tar, We just went through a week of nights 10-20 degrees, with a low of 8 degrees once. This is unusual , I'm in ag zone 8. We generally like to sit in front of the fire with coffee etc when it gets lower than 40 outside. The insulation sucks, I'm almost certain the manufacturer slipped us some less than code windows in our home. I don't know about cat stoves vs, no cat, nor the safety, which is the main reason I started this thread... I do know we have no emissions regs to deal with, we're flat, wind normally comes from the west and blows twd the ocean, 60 miles away.

 

[Trey_G]

The biggest hurdle to jump over is the ceiling clearance, I'm not sure if your stating that if your able to go straight up with the chimney pipe because the side clearances meet the clearance between walls if that means the stove will be tucked into the old cavity of the heatilator, I don't think you have enough room for an alcove type install, but I'm only going off the info that was posted.

Had to look up the definition of alcove, lol. I'm going to remove the entire wall that 45's through the corner. And I'd like to go straight up. I'm quite willing to extend the chimney and brace it back to the shingles, as Begreen suggests it might need a longer chimney. I only have experience with one inside wood stove, and I don't remember it ever getting as hot as that burn barrel, I mean, I literally couldn't hold a 3' stick with a marshmellow on the end for more than a half second - scared me. I guess my real questions are: Does the hearth installation I described seem like enough hearth R value? What is the name of that mineral board I mentioned, ( something 300, abt 70-110 bucks a sheet). If I grout these down and grout between layers and then set durock on top will that support a stove without cracking all up? If I follow the manufacturers side clearances to "combustibles" is that truly a safe distance, (again my burn barrel experience scared me). Since I'm sure I'll find bare studs after removing the wall, heatilator, mantel etc... what is a safe, way to go back? I'll durock and tile it if I must. Is hardibacker board a suitable alternative to durock, I know it weighs a little less.... I appreciate the help all, I really do. I'm in the gathering information phase.

 

[armanidog]

I have the 30 NC.
If this home is only going to be used for a few years, the Englander would be a good choice IMHO due to the low price. You can get some experience burning wood and learn about running a stove. If you load the stove at bedtime and close the air intake you will have a good coal bed in the morning to restart your fire. Some good videos on the Englander site and YouTube on running the stove.
Looking at the manual online, you need 11 inches clearance from the nearest combustible wall with a heat shield and 19 inches without a shield. It comes with a back heat shield, the side heat shields are extra.
It also comes with a blower but go ahead and order the larger blower. The blower that is free is basically a hair dryer on a metal mount. It can be loud.
For a mobile home installations, the pedestal has to be fastened to the floor with holes in the floor pad for the bolts. It also needs an outside air intake, you can use flexible metal ducting and a screen on the outside.
One more thing, go ahead and make your floor pad 4'x4' if you are able. That way you can keep you stove shovel, coal bucket, poker, etc alongside your stove.
(broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/assets/images/manuals/82/13-nc.pdf)

 

[Doc C]

I have an Englander 13 and I love it. It heats my house just fine and I need no supplemental heat.

The downsides....as has been stated here it requires a hearth r value of 2.0 or greater. That is 5 layers of Durock and some slate or tile or flagstone on top. That is the minimum. There are some other ways to get to the required R value but that is one of the ways that most people can get there with easily available building materials.

The other downside is the burn time is not very good. 3-4 hours of good heat and then you have to reload. Obviously depends on wood types, draft, outside temp and more.

I still have coals after about 6-8 hours but no heat to speak of really.

If your mobile is tight and insulated well then you could do like I do and load the stove before bed and let it burn out overnight. Restart in the morning using super cedars or something similar. No kindling required. And easy start.

 

[Tar12]

Tar, We just went through a week of nights 10-20 degrees, with a low of 8 degrees once. This is unusual , I'm in ag zone 8. We generally like to sit in front of the fire with coffee etc when it gets lower than 40 outside. The insulation sucks, I'm almost certain the manufacturer slipped us some less than code windows in our home. I don't know about cat stoves vs, no cat, nor the safety, which is the main reason I started this thread... I do know we have no emissions regs to deal with, we're flat, wind normally comes from the west and blows twd the ocean, 60 miles away.

We have all experienced the colder than normal temps across the country here of late..it is not the norm for a lot of us and I would not make a decision based on this...I saw from researching that your areas avg. winter temps are comparable to my shoulder season temps....not that cold by my standards...I see where it would be easy to over stove your place...I think a Cat stove....regardless of brand would be very beneficial for you...the reason being is I have yet to see a non-cat that can be dialed down and still burn clean like a cat stove can be and yet you still have the firepower when needed..If there was a perfect environment for a cat stove...yours is it! I think this is incredibly important considering your climate there...when I think of a non-cat in your place...I think of windows and doors open all of the time...been there.

 

[begreen]

For a stove that is mobile compliant, can work well with a shorter chimney and has an ember only hearth requirement look at the Drolet Escape 1800, Enviro Kodiak, PE Super 27, Buck 74, True North TN20.

 

[Trey_G]

We have all experienced the colder than normal temps across the country here of late..it is not the norm for a lot of us and I would not make a decision based on this...I saw from researching that your areas avg. winter temps are comparable to my shoulder season temps....not that cold by my standards...I see where it would be easy to over stove your place...I think a Cat stove....regardless of brand would be very beneficial for you...the reason being is I have yet to see a non-cat that can be dialed down and still burn clean like a cat stove can be and yet you still have the firepower when needed..If there was a perfect environment for a cat stove...yours is it! I think this is incredibly important considering your climate there...when I think of a non-cat in your place...I think of windows and doors open all of the time...been there.

Thank you! That is helpful.

 

[Trey_G]

I have the 30 NC.
If this home is only going to be used for a few years, the Englander would be a good choice IMHO due to the low price. You can get some experience burning wood and learn about running a stove. If you load the stove at bedtime and close the air intake you will have a good coal bed in the morning to restart your fire. Some good videos on the Englander site and YouTube on running the stove.
Looking at the manual online, you need 11 inches clearance from the nearest combustible wall with a heat shield and 19 inches without a shield. It comes with a back heat shield, the side heat shields are extra.
It also comes with a blower but go ahead and order the larger blower. The blower that is free is basically a hair dryer on a metal mount. It can be loud.
For a mobile home installations, the pedestal has to be fastened to the floor with holes in the floor pad for the bolts. It also needs an outside air intake, you can use flexible metal ducting and a screen on the outside.
One more thing, go ahead and make your floor pad 4'x4' if you are able. That way you can keep you stove shovel, coal bucket, poker, etc alongside your stove.
(broken link removed to http://www.heatredefined.com/assets/images/manuals/82/13-nc.pdf)

Thank you armanidog. I can follow instructions generally, pretty well, I've read the manual, but I'll refresh on the manual in a second. Can you further define "combustible wall"? That burn barrel would have set sheetrock on fire and melted the vinyl on the outide of the home at those clearances, I'm almost positive of that! I'm planning to tile the corner up to 5' or 6', but I'd like to use 1/4" backer if that would work, with horizontal wood blocking to stiffen it. And I will get the R-2 on the hearth, but I'd like to use the 300 for that as each 1/2" thickness has an R over 1.0, so 2 layers + 1 durock = safety factor. Anyone have experience with the mineral board I'm talking about and can give me the name? outside of the 4' x 4' I'll put 1/2" backer board. Can anyone PLEASE inform me if the bright orange burn barrel is a different animal than the stove, as in will the heat at the clearance mark be the same? less? I'm inclined to believe that the firebricks may help, and I don't remember the one stove I've mentioned ever being bright orange on the outside.

 

[Trey_G]

I have an Englander 13 and I love it. It heats my house just fine and I need no supplemental heat.

The downsides....as has been stated here it requires a hearth r value of 2.0 or greater. That is 5 layers of Durock and some slate or tile or flagstone on top. That is the minimum. There are some other ways to get to the required R value but that is one of the ways that most people can get there with easily available building materials.

The other downside is the burn time is not very good. 3-4 hours of good heat and then you have to reload. Obviously depends on wood types, draft, outside temp and more.

I still have coals after about 6-8 hours but no heat to speak of really.

If your mobile is tight and insulated well then you could do like I do and load the stove before bed and let it burn out overnight. Restart in the morning using super cedars or something similar. No kindling required. And easy start.

Thanks for the reply Doc! And glad you have experience with the stove and like it. I don't mind getting up once to throw a fat log on i guess. As far as the R value, I know from experience, durock is heavy, and was trying to avoid the 5 layers by using 2 layers outside of the 4'x4' footprint of the R>1 "300" mineral board (I've got to search the name of that stuff) and one 1/2" layer on top to mortar the tile to. (3 layers + tile). I'm willing to spend $100.00 for a sheet mail order to reduce the weight. I've got 4 - 4'x4'x4' "cubes" atop pallets filled with red oak and live oak, seasoning by my shed, and I'm covering a huge clearing job at work and come home every day with the bed of my truck riding on the springs, lol. So, I've potentially got some hot burning wood, and I have plenty of thick nighttime pieces in the cubes. I think the wood species I'm using is some of the hottest wood we have here.

 

[Trey_G]

For a stove that is mobile compliant, can work well with a shorter chimney and has an ember only hearth requirement look at the Drolet Escape 1800, Enviro Kodiak, PE Super 27, Buck 74, True North TN20.

I'll look these up, thanks!

 

[Doc C]

Thanks for the reply Doc! And glad you have experience with the stove and like it. I don't mind getting up once to throw a fat log on i guess. As far as the R value, I know from experience, durock is heavy, and was trying to avoid the 5 layers by using 2 layers outside of the 4'x4' footprint of the R>1 "300" mineral board (I've got to search the name of that stuff) and one 1/2" layer on top to mortar the tile to. (3 layers + tile). I'm willing to spend $100.00 for a sheet mail order to reduce the weight. I've got 4 - 4'x4'x4' "cubes" atop pallets filled with red oak and live oak, seasoning by my shed, and I'm covering a huge clearing job at work and come home every day with the bed of my truck riding on the springs, lol. So, I've potentially got some hot burning wood, and I have plenty of thick nighttime pieces in the cubes. I think the wood species I'm using is some of the hottest wood we have here.

The durock now is a lot lighter then it used to be. I want to say around 35 pounds per sheet.

 

[Trey_G]

Thanks for the reply Doc! And glad you have experience with the stove and like it. I don't mind getting up once to throw a fat log on i guess. As far as the R value, I know from experience, durock is heavy, and was trying to avoid the 5 layers by using 2 layers outside of the 4'x4' footprint of the R>1 "300" mineral board (I've got to search the name of that stuff) and one 1/2" layer on top to mortar the tile to. (3 layers + tile). I'm willing to spend $100.00 for a sheet mail order to reduce the weight. I've got 4 - 4'x4'x4' "cubes" atop pallets filled with red oak and live oak, seasoning by my shed, and I'm covering a huge clearing job at work and come home every day with the bed of my truck riding on the springs, lol. So, I've potentially got some hot burning wood, and I have plenty of thick nighttime pieces in the cubes. I think the wood species I'm using is some of the hottest wood we have here.

I'll look these up, thanks!

Is the drolet escape a better stove in your opinion for my situation, and why? it's not a whole lot more. Oh, and it's MICORE 300 btw, found that out by looking at YOUR comments on other threads. I'm totally willing to build up the hearth with steel studs and 2 layers of durock, probably with unfaced fiberglass ins. between the studs. The 20.5" to the corner at the ceiling is concerning, won't know what I have until I take out the wall coverings, but looks close, judging from the chimney outside.

 

[Doc C]

Is the drolet escape a better stove in your opinion for my situation, and why? it's not a whole lot more. Oh, and it's MICORE 300 btw, found that out by looking at YOUR comments on other threads. I'm totally willing to build up the hearth with steel studs and 2 layers of durock, probably with unfaced fiberglass ins. between the studs. The 20.5" to the corner at the ceiling is concerning, won't know what I have until I take out the wall coverings, but looks close, judging from the chimney outside.

Why would you use steel studs? If you can get to the R value you need with micore or durock or whatever you choose to use I don’t really see the need to use steel. Unless your just trying to get an air gap in there?

I used 2x4 lumber for the frame. 5 layers of durock and then large format slate with thin set.