Cookstove -- new or old?

[vt-new-fp]

I am interested in input from all you expert people here about a wood cookstove. I am considering a bunch of variables, but I'll try to layout my situation first.

House is about 2500 SF poorly-insulated, rather drafty two-storey c.1790 farmhouse in Vermont. I have a two-flue center chimney. In one flue, I have a Fisher fireplace insert (probably c. 1980s) (flue now lined with stainless). In my kitchen, there had been an old Crawford wood cook stove, which I removed, because it was warped and very loose (embers would shoot out of the stove). In its place, I have a vented propane heater (Empire Comfort System). The house is comfortable with the propane heater plus wood stove.

I'd like to lessen my dependence on fuel company (I paid about $2,500 in propane last year, this also covers cooking, clothes dryer, hot water). So I'm thinking of getting rid of the propane heater and putting a wood cook stove back in the kitchen -- it would be the only appliance vented out the second flue of the chimney.

I'm considering a vintage (c. 1940s) wood/coal cooker with four propane burners built in and also looking through the many new options. I don't want to rebuild the Crawford, because the oven is really small (could fit a chicken, not a turkey). I burn and use the gas October - May. I do my own firewood and have ample woodlot.

I'd need to line the second flue, put in ceramic tile all around the wall and floor (it's all wood now), and buy a stove -- so it's going to be expensive, (and the stoves aren't cheap!) but if I'm spending so much on propane now, it might recoup the cost in a few years. Anyway, I'd be interested in any input from you smart wood people! THanks

 

[peakbagger]

I need to begin with a rant. How many similar vintage capes and farmhouses are there in VT in similar condition? I have run into many over the years and they inevitably are poorly insulated "barns". A few will have modern additions where the family can take refuge but the main part of the house with a hacked in bathroom seem to kept as a museum to cheap fuel, frozen pipes and drafts. The problem seems to be that the various owners over the years decide that to fix them right is going to be far more expensive then to just sell it to someone else as a summer place or to someone who thinks they are buying a classic. Yes I appreciate exposed beams, wide pine floors and wainscoting but they leave legacy of tenants and buyers who have the death by a thousand cuts buying fuel of some sort to keep them above freezing. I remember one such place that a tenant was renting where she got 8 cords of wood to feed a wood furnace in the basement with a grate in the main floor and still nearly went broke buying 1000 gallons of oil on top of that. It wasnt unusual that the water would freeze in the toilet in the early morning after the fires inevitably went out. It also came with the usual cast of raccoons in the attic. It also seemed to be the tradition that the 8 cords of wood was cut green and delivered in the fall at the last minute so the only way the wood would burn would be full out with a smoke dragon. At best the effective heat output of the wood was 50%, the rest of the heat formed creosote in the chimney and the valley the villages these homes were in inevitably stunk of poorly combusted wood in winter. My mom grew up in similar farmhouse in Quebec in the 1930s and the truth of homes of that era pre-plumbing was that they were not designed to stay above freezing 24/7. The family warmed them up at night went to bed and warmed them up again in the morning. There was no plumbing so if it dropped below freezing at some point in the night it wasnt an issue. Adding plumbing meant that it had to be kept heated 24/7 or the lines needed to be heat traced.

Wood cookstoves are not designed for heating. Their efficiency is abysmal, and they are not designed for a long burn. It is just the wrong tool for the job. Inherently if a heat load calculation is done you need a high output wood stove or multiple stoves fed with dry wood. Dry wood is cut and split hardwood that has dried 24 months properly stacked and covered in sunny spot with breeze. The new EPA wood stoves will just not run right with damp wood. Yes, wood cook stoves are exempt from EPA regs as they are a cooking appliance. That doesn't mean they defy the laws of physics it just means they fit through a loophole.

One good thing about VT is there are enough of these homes of this vintage that there are various agencies and third party organizations who exist to try to tame the energy use of these homes. They are quite familiar with short term fixes to make the structures a bit tighter, and they usually have lots of subsidy money. Its a case of pay them up front and hopefully get a subsidy or wish and hope that you qualify for home heating subsidies. The down side is the fixes tend to be temporary, spray foam is neat stuff but the racoons, red squirrels and the mice will tear it up in few years.

If you insist on a wood cookstove you need a workhorse. The Amish built plate steel wood cookstoves are the cheapest and still probably exceed your desired budget. They are functional and bare bones, some complete with weld spatter. I think Pioneer and Bakers Choice are two brands. I think most are direct sold within Amish and Menonite sources, but Lehman's has always mainstreamed them albeit with hefty markup up and expensive shipping. My guess is with high fuel costs, they are long since sold out for this winter.

An older fireplace insert is better than a fireplace but not much. Ideally you need to build a legal stove pad with proper clearances , seal off the insert and drop a good size wood stove in front of it. That is going to up you usably output considerably. The early VC Defiants were designed for homes like these and they worked well if they were fed dry wood.

Sorry to lay it out but I have heard similar stories for years with folks who move up to rural VT who fall in love with these old places and have a rude awakening for several winters. Most of them eventually figure it out and the usual approach is sell and move up to a newer home or burn their house down with a chimney fire and hope they have adequate insurance and build new with the insurance check.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd get the raccoons and mice out/under control, fix the exterior to keep them out, and then insulate the snot out of the place. Dollar for dollar, it'll be hard to beat the return of insulation.

 

[Dave_in_ABQ]

If that antique building has real value, then it is worth making it livable. A '57 Chevy costs more to restore than a new Chevy. I wouldnt restore an old Chevy, but my friend Mark has.

 

[peakbagger]

If that antique building has real value, then it is worth making it livable. A '57 Chevy costs more to restore than a new Chevy. I wouldnt restore an old Chevy, but my friend Mark has.

To go with the 57 Chevy analogy, the goal with an "antique home" is not to restore it as much as "restomod" it where the home retains the external looks while performing like a modern home. For an example, many homes of that vintage in VT are sitting on granite or rubble rock wall foundations with no perimeter drainage. Therefore, the basements are wet several months of the year which means that the basement has to have good ventilation. That means a cold first floor. So, jack up the house, and dig underneath it (if its capable of being dug) then pour a new foundation faced with granite above ground with perimeter drainage. Thats 40 to 50K. Odds are there will be sill replacements needed. Now that the house is sitting on proper foundation. Now either upgrade the single pane windows to architectural double panes or maybe have the existing windows switched over to double pane lights. Then rework the sides of the windows to put in new sliding tracks and remove the old window weights and insulate the pockets. The cost to upgrade the old windows compared to replacement is usually double to triple. Plan on 1K per window for restore, less for replace. My guess is 20 windows for full two story, 14 for a cape. Now pump the walls full of foam by removing exterior shingles of clapboards and drilling holes. Figure 30K. Now retrofit the attic with upgraded insulation after dealing with the usual sins of ventilation from bathrooms. Plan on new custom sized architectural doors to match the building 5K as the old ones probably leak lots of air. There will also need to be trim repair and upgrade to keep critters out, New screened soffits and gable end vents. Plan on new roof membrane and plan on finding rot in the sheathing underneath. Oh by the way, everything has layers of lead paint so that adds to the cost. Plan on year if the house is vacant.

Add it all up and the cost and hassle is going to exceed the cost to build a new "boring" modern building. VT has more than few rural towns where the coast for the rehab is never going to be made back unless the location is something special and an out of stater picks it up.

 

[Mt Bob]

To go with the 57 Chevy analogy, the goal with an "antique home" is not to restore it as much as "restomod" it where the home retains the external looks while performing like a modern home. For an example, many homes of that vintage in VT are sitting on granite or rubble rock wall foundations with no perimeter drainage. Therefore, the basements are wet several months of the year which means that the basement has to have good ventilation. That means a cold first floor. So, jack up the house, and dig underneath it (if its capable of being dug) then pour a new foundation faced with granite above ground with perimeter drainage. Thats 40 to 50K. Odds are there will be sill replacements needed. Now that the house is sitting on proper foundation. Now either upgrade the single pane windows to architectural double panes or maybe have the existing windows switched over to double pane lights. Then rework the sides of the windows to put in new sliding tracks and remove the old window weights and insulate the pockets. The cost to upgrade the old windows compared to replacement is usually double to triple. Plan on 1K per window for restore, less for replace. My guess is 20 windows for full two story, 14 for a cape. Now pump the walls full of foam by removing exterior shingles of clapboards and drilling holes. Figure 30K. Now retrofit the attic with upgraded insulation after dealing with the usual sins of ventilation from bathrooms. Plan on new custom sized architectural doors to match the building 5K as the old ones probably leak lots of air. There will also need to be trim repair and upgrade to keep critters out, New screened soffits and gable end vents. Plan on new roof membrane and plan on finding rot in the sheathing underneath. Oh by the way, everything has layers of lead paint so that adds to the cost. Plan on year if the house is vacant.

Add it all up and the cost and hassle is going to exceed the cost to build a new "boring" modern building. VT has more than few rural towns where the coast for the rehab is never going to be made back unless the location is something special and an out of stater picks it up.

They should take these 2 posts of yours and put them in a sticky, top of forum!!

 

[ctyankee]

They should take these 2 posts of yours and put them in a sticky, top of forum!!

Yes, let's reward philistinism!! While we're at it let's post a link on how to apply for demolition permits so we can finally be rid of all our ancestors' obsolete craftsmanship!

 

[kborndale]

Yes, let's reward philistinism!! While we're at it let's post a link on how to apply for demolition permits so we can finally be rid of all our ancestors' obsolete craftsmanship!

Yeah, who cares if you spend crazy money to heat your house and it's still cold and the wind blows thru it as long as it is pretty!

 

[SteveKG]

Back to the cookstove questions. Our house is heated by two main stoves: a Woodstock catalytic at one end, a cookstove at the other, which happens to be the kitchen. The two do a great job. The cookstove is an "air tight" and is, for a cookstove, pretty efficient. The catalytic uses maybe a third less the wood as the cookstove. The cookstove remains hot for many hours with a good fire early in the morning, then often allowed to burn out by late morning. We use it for baking, we have a propane-burning countertop with 4 burners as well.

I have used four other cookstoves over the years. All of them were the usual "old" very very pretty models everyone has seen. All of them heated and cooked and baked, but all were miserable on wood use [a lot] and managing [constant attention to fire]. They were difficult to moderate and took a lot of time and were just too much trouble. They all had small fireboxes, too, limiting the size and amount of wood one could load in. Our "newer" one, an Aga brand, has a larger firebox, can be warmed up and left unattended, and the oven is easy to keep at a temperature. "Newer" is almost a misnomer: the basic design is, if I recall, post WWII. Still, it works very well.

However, the cookstove still uses more wood than the catalytic. I don't know whether there are new cookstove models that are more efficient, but I see them advertised and they are possibly quite good. I haven't used one.

Besides being wood-gobblers and having tiny fireboxes, some of the older stoves are leaky and a pain to manage as far as air intake to the fire. Which also means it can be difficult to control their temperature. I don't know anything about the model you are considering, with the gas burners as option. Way back I really wanted on of those models with the gas burners, but I was not able to find one I could buy and gave up. It is a nice idea: use gas in the summer/warm weather and still have the wood-fired oven when wanted. And only have to have the one stove in the kitchen to do it all.

So, I am a cookstove user and believer. It works well for us. Maybe someone here will have experience to relate regarding the gas/wood hybrid cookstove.

 

[qwee]

I might try one of these - some day. Or maybe get one of those special metal tops from Germany that expands (without getting damaged or leaking air) and try to build the below part with fire brick and 4" granite stone.

https://www.mha-net.org/graphics2/21041301.JPG

 

[coaly]

Cookstoves certainly are designed for home heating as well as stove top cooking and baking. Many heat up to 3000 and 3500 square feet.

The Amish stoves have no “weld spatter” and use secondary burn technology. Most are painted shields with baked on enamel. They are laser cut and machine welded.

The Heco brand comes with a coal grate that can be added if coal is desirable. Their larger size heats up to 3500 sf.

The cheaper brands from Suppertime have been made of gauge steel for quite some time, not as heavy duty as the Kitchen Queen, but very popular.

The largest water heating tank is on the Queen, with or without using the add on stainless steel 3/4 pipe coil in firebox. If this is not the only hot water used in the home, it is not necessary and advised against using the firebox mounted coil due to over humidification when not using enough hot water. This tank holds 24 gallons.

Smaller stoves not made for home heating such as the Tim Sistem have very close clearances, but are not for space heating.

Check out the Grand Comfort 750 by Kitchen Queen that has been improved over the years from the original 480. Secondary burn, thermostat, front oven clean out;

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Another advantage of some Amish built stoves is the door gasket used is the flat type. It is installed into a slot instead of using cement. It can be replaced hot or cold unlike any other stoves that need to be cold to service gaskets.

 

[coaly]

Back to the cookstove questions. Our house is heated by two main stoves: a Woodstock catalytic at one end, a cookstove at the other, which happens to be the kitchen. The two do a great job. The cookstove is an "air tight" and is, for a cookstove, pretty efficient. The catalytic uses maybe a third less the wood as the cookstove. The cookstove remains hot for many hours with a good fire early in the morning, then often allowed to burn out by late morning. We use it for baking, we have a propane-burning countertop with 4 burners as well.

I have used four other cookstoves over the years. All of them were the usual "old" very very pretty models everyone has seen. All of them heated and cooked and baked, but all were miserable on wood use [a lot] and managing [constant attention to fire]. They were difficult to moderate and took a lot of time and were just too much trouble. They all had small fireboxes, too, limiting the size and amount of wood one could load in. Our "newer" one, an Aga brand, has a larger firebox, can be warmed up and left unattended, and the oven is easy to keep at a temperature. "Newer" is almost a misnomer: the basic design is, if I recall, post WWII. Still, it works very well.

However, the cookstove still uses more wood than the catalytic. I don't know whether there are new cookstove models that are more efficient, but I see them advertised and they are possibly quite good. I haven't used one.

Besides being wood-gobblers and having tiny fireboxes, some of the older stoves are leaky and a pain to manage as far as air intake to the fire. Which also means it can be difficult to control their temperature. I don't know anything about the model you are considering, with the gas burners as option. Way back I really wanted on of those models with the gas burners, but I was not able to find one I could buy and gave up. It is a nice idea: use gas in the summer/warm weather and still have the wood-fired oven when wanted. And only have to have the one stove in the kitchen to do it all.

So, I am a cookstove user and believer. It works well for us. Maybe someone here will have experience to relate regarding the gas/wood hybrid cookstove.

Sounds like the older stoves you were using were designed for coal. A little coal goes a long way in them compared to wood. The new cookstoves are secondary burn, many improvements and mine burns 24/7.

 

[coaly]

I am interested in input from all you expert people here about a wood cookstove. I am considering a bunch of variables, but I'll try to layout my situation first.

House is about 2500 SF poorly-insulated, rather drafty two-storey c.1790 farmhouse in Vermont. I have a two-flue center chimney. In one flue, I have a Fisher fireplace insert (probably c. 1980s) (flue now lined with stainless). In my kitchen, there had been an old Crawford wood cook stove, which I removed, because it was warped and very loose (embers would shoot out of the stove). In its place, I have a vented propane heater (Empire Comfort System). The house is comfortable with the propane heater plus wood stove.

I'd like to lessen my dependence on fuel company (I paid about $2,500 in propane last year, this also covers cooking, clothes dryer, hot water). So I'm thinking of getting rid of the propane heater and putting a wood cook stove back in the kitchen -- it would be the only appliance vented out the second flue of the chimney.

I'm considering a vintage (c. 1940s) wood/coal cooker with four propane burners built in and also looking through the many new options. I don't want to rebuild the Crawford, because the oven is really small (could fit a chicken, not a turkey). I burn and use the gas October - May. I do my own firewood and have ample woodlot.

I'd need to line the second flue, put in ceramic tile all around the wall and floor (it's all wood now), and buy a stove -- so it's going to be expensive, (and the stoves aren't cheap!) but if I'm spending so much on propane now, it might recoup the cost in a few years. Anyway, I'd be interested in any input from you smart wood people! THanks

Does the Fisher Insert have an added baffle? The right size plate puts more heat to the front half which is a radiant stove. Does it have a blower? Is the liner insulated? Those 3 things make a tremendous difference.

Most older cookstoves are coal. If you have that capability in your area, a liner for coal is needed with higher corrosion resistance. I’m extremely satisfied with our Kitchen Queen that was built in 2008. Heats up to 3000 sf and we are under 2000, so we have never loaded it full. The new ones have been improved with a front oven clean out, thermostat, easier ash pan door latch, and secondary burn.

In your case the hydronic heating coil in firebox for water tank heating could be used for a baseboard heater upstairs very easily.

 

[vt-new-fp]

Does the Fisher Insert have an added baffle? The right size plate puts more heat to the front half which is a radiant stove. Does it have a blower? Is the liner insulated? Those 3 things make a tremendous difference.

Most older cookstoves are coal. If you have that capability in your area, a liner for coal is needed with higher corrosion resistance. I’m extremely satisfied with our Kitchen Queen that was built in 2008. Heats up to 3000 sf and we are under 2000, so we have never loaded it full. The new ones have been improved with a front oven clean out, thermostat, easier ash pan door latch, and secondary burn.

In your case the hydronic heating coil in firebox for water tank heating could be used for a baseboard heater upstairs very easily.

Oh, that's an interesting idea to put hydronic baseboard heating upstairs. I see all those diagrams and things on the various models and I just don't understand what the options are or how to configure it (I would hire someone and would not try to do that myself). Right now, the propane heater in the kitchen heats the bathroom (right above the kitchen), and I have a space heater (electric) in my bedroom. The house is comfortable as-is, I'm just considering being more energy-independent and I love wood heat. I've only experienced a coal fire once (it was an open fireplace in England and was more decorative than hot), so I'd like to try one out (and try cooking with it).

Yes, my Fisher insert has a baffle in the front, and I had someone enlarge the face plate (my hearth opening was bigger than the original) so it fits against the hearth front. I have the fan, but I've never hooked it up because I don't like all the noise (same with the propane heater -- I don't use the fan, because I like my quiet). Yes, insulated stainless steel liner. I'm only burning about 4 cords a year (plus the propane) and my toilet isn't frozen.

I've been watching all sorts of videos on Obediah's about the various cook stoves available. There are so many choices! Each video makes it seem like that's the one I want, then I watch the next one! The chimney flue that it would go in is lined with terracotta tiles -- is that a sufficient liner for coal? I've read that stainless steel corrodes with coal. The flue now has propane heater vented to it (only), it did have oil/propane/wood cook stove at one point (previous owner, old-timer), but inspection said it's in good shape.

 

[vt-new-fp]

Back to the cookstove questions. Our house is heated by two main stoves: a Woodstock catalytic at one end, a cookstove at the other, which happens to be the kitchen. The two do a great job. The cookstove is an "air tight" and is, for a cookstove, pretty efficient. The catalytic uses maybe a third less the wood as the cookstove. The cookstove remains hot for many hours with a good fire early in the morning, then often allowed to burn out by late morning. We use it for baking, we have a propane-burning countertop with 4 burners as well.

I have used four other cookstoves over the years. All of them were the usual "old" very very pretty models everyone has seen. All of them heated and cooked and baked, but all were miserable on wood use [a lot] and managing [constant attention to fire]. They were difficult to moderate and took a lot of time and were just too much trouble. They all had small fireboxes, too, limiting the size and amount of wood one could load in. Our "newer" one, an Aga brand, has a larger firebox, can be warmed up and left unattended, and the oven is easy to keep at a temperature. "Newer" is almost a misnomer: the basic design is, if I recall, post WWII. Still, it works very well.

However, the cookstove still uses more wood than the catalytic. I don't know whether there are new cookstove models that are more efficient, but I see them advertised and they are possibly quite good. I haven't used one.

Besides being wood-gobblers and having tiny fireboxes, some of the older stoves are leaky and a pain to manage as far as air intake to the fire. Which also means it can be difficult to control their temperature. I don't know anything about the model you are considering, with the gas burners as option. Way back I really wanted on of those models with the gas burners, but I was not able to find one I could buy and gave up. It is a nice idea: use gas in the summer/warm weather and still have the wood-fired oven when wanted. And only have to have the one stove in the kitchen to do it all.

So, I am a cookstove user and believer. It works well for us. Maybe someone here will have experience to relate regarding the gas/wood hybrid cookstove.

I've used a wood burning Aga to cook on in England (last century), but I didn't know you could get them still or get them in the US. Yes, some of the new ones have catalytic and have those re-burn tubes in the top. Some of the new ones are actual heating wood stoves - you have to switch them into cooking mode (and reduce the amount of wood) to start baking in them. My propane range is dying, which is why I'm thinking of getting one appliance, rather than two. Thank you for your input on the Aga They are such good stoves!

 

[coaly]

Oh, that's an interesting idea to put hydronic baseboard heating upstairs. I see all those diagrams and things on the various models and I just don't understand what the options are or how to configure it (I would hire someone and would not try to do that myself). Right now, the propane heater in the kitchen heats the bathroom (right above the kitchen), and I have a space heater (electric) in my bedroom. The house is comfortable as-is, I'm just considering being more energy-independent and I love wood heat. I've only experienced a coal fire once (it was an open fireplace in England and was more decorative than hot), so I'd like to try one out (and try cooking with it).

Yes, my Fisher insert has a baffle in the front, and I had someone enlarge the face plate (my hearth opening was bigger than the original) so it fits against the hearth front. I have the fan, but I've never hooked it up because I don't like all the noise (same with the propane heater -- I don't use the fan, because I like my quiet). Yes, insulated stainless steel liner. I'm only burning about 4 cords a year (plus the propane) and my toilet isn't frozen.

I've been watching all sorts of videos on Obediah's about the various cook stoves available. There are so many choices! Each video makes it seem like that's the one I want, then I watch the next one! The chimney flue that it would go in is lined with terracotta tiles -- is that a sufficient liner for coal? I've read that stainless steel corrodes with coal. The flue now has propane heater vented to it (only), it did have oil/propane/wood cook stove at one point (previous owner, old-timer), but inspection said it's in good shape.

The baffle inside the insert goes in the rear. It would set on the firebrick in the back, and be angled upward toward the front. This prevents excessive heat lost up chimney, reduces smoke, and make the Insert much more controllable. You can see the added line in red below.
This thread describes the fabrication and adjustment;

Simple Baffle Solution for your old FISHER ! More Heat Less Smoke under $25

This 5 minute baffle plate install is the easiest way I've found to reduce smoke and prevent intense heating of the rear outlet elbow or pipe. (20 years late, but better late than never) And possibly the best solution for anyone who can't afford to upgrade to a new stove; Approximate cost under...

www.hearth.com

A masonry or tile flue is the best for coal.

The blower on an Insert removes heat by convection from the entire rear of the Insert. The front radiates into the room, heating by radiation. The rear has an air chamber that pushes indoor air uo the back, over the flue outlet pipe where it extracts most of the heat. Without using the blower, hot air drifts out by gravity very slow and heats the surrounding masonry and stone. This feels like the mass is heating the building, which it does, but it also radiates heat upward through the roof or out the hearth walls if installed in an outside chimney. Heating the air with convected heat is more efficient than allowing it to leak into the mass of the chimney (in most cases). The original blower will have a variable speed switch. Very low for overnight is extremely quiet.

A water circulating system can be added from the firebox of any stove. The Kitchen Queen has this accessory to either connect to the tank on the rear of stove to make more hot water by recirculating through the firebox, or using the water loop for an external hot water tank, or circulating system. If you are not familiar with hydronic heating, expansion tanks, and relief valves required on a closed system, it is advisable to have it built professionally. This would be a 10 Lb. pressure regulator on a feed line supplying low water pressure to the system. A simple open system means it is not pressurized, with a tank open to the atmosphere that cannot build up pressure. The line coming off the top allows heated water to rise into a tank with loop on the upper floor above stove. This small reservoir or cistern is filled upstairs. It fills the entire system being the highest point of the system. As the water cools in the radiator or baseboard, it drops back to be reheated, so this takes no circulator or controls. It is the simplest not requiring a fresh water pressure connection. This is the best way to move heat into a remote room as long as you have the height to allow the hot lighter water to rise and circulate through the system. No electric required. Oversize lines with Pex tubing allows the best circulation.

 

[SpaceBus]

I own a modern cookstove (75% rated efficiency) and would never attempt to use one as my "primary" heat in New England, especially VT, and never for a poorly insulated home no matter where. The cookstove is designed to heat the oven and top while NOT overheating the space. It's not like a wood stove designed to be a space heater. Old cookstoves are not going to be any better at heating your space and while burning even more wood. Most antique cook stoves are also designed to burn coal, and have poor performance with wood.

Some of the new Heco and Kitchen Queen Amish made stoves are a bit better at heating the house. Not as good as a regular stove, but better than any antique and most other "modern" stoves. They are also huge and not exactly nice looking.

All that being said I love our cookstove and love to cook. I actually like that the heat output is very soft, because we also have a regular wood stove. I do not consider the cookstove our primary heater, but I do enjoy using it whenever I possibly can. In the cold months that means I load it every day several times a day and just use the Morso when it is in the low 20's. The Morso is capable of 100% of heating duties and is our primary heater. Our house is also pretty tight and well insulated.

 

[begreen]

I love wood cookstoves but personally, I'd lose the Fisher and replace it with a much higher efficiency, large, modern insert. Then I'd invest in sealing up the place and reducing heat loss. That is going to be a much better investment than the cookstove at this juncture. In a few years you can put the money saved into a proper wood cookstove.

 

[vt-new-fp]

The baffle inside the insert goes in the rear. It would set on the firebrick in the back, and be angled upward toward the front. This prevents excessive heat lost up chimney, reduces smoke, and make the Insert much more controllable. You can see the added line in red below.
View attachment 288099 This thread describes the fabrication and adjustment;

Simple Baffle Solution for your old FISHER ! More Heat Less Smoke under $25

This 5 minute baffle plate install is the easiest way I've found to reduce smoke and prevent intense heating of the rear outlet elbow or pipe. (20 years late, but better late than never) And possibly the best solution for anyone who can't afford to upgrade to a new stove; Approximate cost under...

www.hearth.com

A masonry or tile flue is the best for coal.

The blower on an Insert removes heat by convection from the entire rear of the Insert. The front radiates into the room, heating by radiation. The rear has an air chamber that pushes indoor air uo the back, over the flue outlet pipe where it extracts most of the heat. Without using the blower, hot air drifts out by gravity very slow and heats the surrounding masonry and stone. This feels like the mass is heating the building, which it does, but it also radiates heat upward through the roof or out the hearth walls if installed in an outside chimney. Heating the air with convected heat is more efficient than allowing it to leak into the mass of the chimney (in most cases). The original blower will have a variable speed switch. Very low for overnight is extremely quiet.

A water circulating system can be added from the firebox of any stove. The Kitchen Queen has this accessory to either connect to the tank on the rear of stove to make more hot water by recirculating through the firebox, or using the water loop for an external hot water tank, or circulating system. If you are not familiar with hydronic heating, expansion tanks, and relief valves required on a closed system, it is advisable to have it built professionally. This would be a 10 Lb. pressure regulator on a feed line supplying low water pressure to the system. A simple open system means it is not pressurized, with a tank open to the atmosphere that cannot build up pressure. The line coming off the top allows heated water to rise into a tank with loop on the upper floor above stove. This small reservoir or cistern is filled upstairs. It fills the entire system being the highest point of the system. As the water cools in the radiator or baseboard, it drops back to be reheated, so this takes no circulator or controls. It is the simplest not requiring a fresh water pressure connection. This is the best way to move heat into a remote room as long as you have the height to allow the hot lighter water to rise and circulate through the system. No electric required. Oversize lines with Pex tubing allows the best circulation.

Okay, I just hauled the fan out of storage, but I don't know where it goes (for the Fisher insert). Does it sit on top of the stove itself?

 

[coaly]

No, here is a thread showing all the different styles;

Made a Blower for My Fisher Insert

I just finished this so I haven't tried it yet. I was trying to think of a way to hide the ugly blower and while walking around Tractor Supply I spoted the mailboxes. Bent some sheet up for the duct. Its a Hack Job but I think it will work. Now I need a piece of 5/16 plate for a baffle.

www.hearth.com

 

[Morso1bo]

I replaced an old Lange 6302k ( which was great ) with a La Nordica Milly cookstove in my 1811 Northern New England cape and I do not regret it. I do have new blown in insulation above the attic plaster which works harder than the stove does! The cookstove heats very well but takes much longer than the heat stove to start “making a difference “ on a very cold night. Another draw back is that I often have to start from scratch every morning, as I don’t refill the stove in the wee hours of the night. I love having the always ready cook top and oven so it would be hard to go back to a regular heat stove. I also have a Moro 2b classic stove upstairs (left over from un insulated days) that I do fire op on 15 degrees or less nights.

 

[vt-new-fp]

I replaced an old Lange 6302k ( which was great ) with a La Nordica Milly cookstove in my 1811 Northern New England cape and I do not regret it. I do have new blown in insulation above the attic plaster which works harder than the stove does! The cookstove heats very well but takes much longer than the heat stove to start “making a difference “ on a very cold night. Another draw back is that I often have to start from scratch every morning, as I don’t refill the stove in the wee hours of the night. I love having the always ready cook top and oven so it would be hard to go back to a regular heat stove. I also have a Moro 2b classic stove upstairs (left over from un insulated days) that I do fire op on 15 degrees or less nights.

Thanks! What made you choose the La Nordica Milly? I've decided to postpone any changes for now - I'd have to put in a bunch of infrastructure (heat shield, chimney liner) and as much as I love wood heat, I'm kind of digging the ease of the propane heater (I've been sealing holes in the kitchen and it's getting snugger). If I do get one, I will definitely want to go with an all-night burn. But there are too many choices for me -- I get paralyzed by looking at all the various options.

 

[clancey]

That's a nice looking cook stove..so I pasted one on here. Propane I guess would be easier but prices for the propane are rising and there are so very beautiful stoves out there that gives a all night burn --just saying...enjoying the thread especially that old fisher with the double doors and is that the type of stove that they have screens for when you leave the doors open..pretty clancey

Wood Burning Cook Stove La Nordica "Milly"

Wood Burning Cook Stove La Nordica Milly. The newest cook stove by La Nordica with an optional warming oven! La Nordica models: 7018005 Red & 7018006 White

www.woodcookstove.com

 

[SpaceBus]

There's an easy way to shorten the list of acceptable wood burning cookstoves, do you need homeowner's insurance? If so, then only look at UL approved cookstoves. If you don't need homeowners insurance, there is a larger market.

Unfortunately there are not many wood burning cookstoves that will put out heat all night. If your house is well insulated this doesn't matter. I used to think an "overnight burn" was a big deal, but BTU's are BTU's. Size the cookstove to what your home needs to stay warm in the winter, not to a specified burn time. It's also going to be primarily a cooking appliance, so you have to ask yourself if absolute high output is really worth it. Do you want something that can heat your house or do you want something that can cook a good meal? To me a giant cookstove was counterintuitive, I want to use the cookstove as much as possible, and a larger stove is harder to use in milder weather. We just light our other stove when the weather gets really cold, just like @Morso1bo

 

[Morso1bo]

Thanks! What made you choose the La Nordica Milly? I've decided to postpone any changes for now - I'd have to put in a bunch of infrastructure (heat shield, chimney liner) and as much as I love wood heat, I'm kind of digging the ease of the propane heater (I've been sealing holes in the kitchen and it's getting snugger). If I do get one, I will definitely want to go with an all-night burn. But there are too many choices for me -- I get paralyzed by looking at all the various options.

I chose the Milly for its relatively large fire box, price, and its old fashioned looks. The oven is very easy to use and doesn’t burn food as much as a real antique cook stove. I really wanted an Esse Ironheart but was above my budget! Good luck!