Ever wonder what it would cost if you decided to heat with a different fuel?
http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
Cost of heating per fuel
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I am not sure what you mean...? You think a heat pump can heat as cheap as wood?
We are heat pump "primary heat" all electric home yada yada.. According to the power company we were spending around $800 a year on "heat".. Now we spend less than $100. I will admit that we don't have to buy our wood, so our fuel costs are minimal. But my guess is, in exchange for the "trouble" of heating with wood, I get to spend $700 a year somewhere else..
According to their worksheet, we save $189 a month.. just about exactly what my bill says..
We are heat pump "primary heat" all electric home yada yada.. According to the power company we were spending around $800 a year on "heat".. Now we spend less than $100. I will admit that we don't have to buy our wood, so our fuel costs are minimal. But my guess is, in exchange for the "trouble" of heating with wood, I get to spend $700 a year somewhere else..
According to their worksheet, we save $189 a month.. just about exactly what my bill says..
I think a heat pump can heat cheaper than wood if electricity is reasonably priced. You can heat a 2000 sq ft house for a day in our climate for less than the cost of one's evening booze. Wood purchased here is expensive, starting around $250/cord for softwood and electricity is under $0.10/KW. At that price even resistance heat is cheaper during mild weather.
What price did you enter for the cost of the wood? There is a cost. Our heat pump died in the nineties from lack of use. But even its 1985 technology was a pretty efficient heating method. Compared to what their calculation that assumes electric resistance heat assumes.
Just saying, electric heat ain't all resistance. And you ain't heating the joint for $100 a month labor and tools included. And my bill says around a hundred a month. But I don't kid myself about what all of that whacking, splitting, stacking and lugging costs. For the last 37 years of doing it.
Heating with wood hasn't saved me a dime. I just do it.
BradleyW
Burning Hunk
My wife wants heating with wood to save us money. It might save us a grand a year, maybe. I've decided that it is my hobby. Most hobbies cost some money, this one saves a little. I think it is as interesting as any other hobbies I've had, and more purposeful.
BrotherBart I would have to disagree with your logic. If I had to pay someone for all the things that I do for myself because after all my time and know how is worth something then I would be bankrupt. But the fact is my bank account says I am saving money by doing it myself and wood heat is part of that.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I am saving about $2000/ year by buying logs, processing those to seasoned splits and saving some ashes to fertilize the tomatoes in spring.
I am processing about 8 cords per year, don't pay for a gym membership. Have something to do outdoors when it is too cold to hunt or fish.
My break even point for new professional chimney install and brand new top of the line Blaze King stove is right at three heating seasons.
The "US forest service" does offer a "fuel value calculator" that hits easily on google if you use the two phrases in quotes. (broken link removed) should take you right to it.
Real handy, the trick to all these spread sheets and slide rules is the assumptions about appliance efficiency.
I am processing about 8 cords per year, don't pay for a gym membership. Have something to do outdoors when it is too cold to hunt or fish.
My break even point for new professional chimney install and brand new top of the line Blaze King stove is right at three heating seasons.
The "US forest service" does offer a "fuel value calculator" that hits easily on google if you use the two phrases in quotes. (broken link removed) should take you right to it.
Real handy, the trick to all these spread sheets and slide rules is the assumptions about appliance efficiency.
We have oil heating as our back up. As I'm sure you guys know, oil is about 4 times as expensive here than in the US. wood costs more to buy too, but not as much more as oil, that's for sure!. Simplest way for me to work out relative costs is to think in terms of costs per month in the coldest months of the year, I've converted into USD -
Oil central heating - 400 per month
Wood - 155 per month
I have to buy about 50% of my firewood, so if the costs above were based on buying 100% of my wood, it would still be a saving of pretty much $100 a month.
It nice to see those figures laid out before my eyes!
I also agree with what I know others here feel as well... Wood is a way of life - and that is priceless..
Oil central heating - 400 per month
Wood - 155 per month
I have to buy about 50% of my firewood, so if the costs above were based on buying 100% of my wood, it would still be a saving of pretty much $100 a month.
It nice to see those figures laid out before my eyes!
I also agree with what I know others here feel as well... Wood is a way of life - and that is priceless..
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Those US Forest service prices are amazingly out of date...chart from 10 years ago. Propane $.22, someone just posted paying $.65/LITER. Maybe $2.35/gallon? Makes you wonder where prices will be in ten years. Also lists 15.3 million BTU/cord seasoned wood. I am under the impression we are talking over 24 M for any good seasoned hardwood....And electric! 1 - 5 cent/kwh? I am paying closer to 30 cents. Wood heat saves enormously...and would do so even if I were paying the $300/cord that green goes for here.....
I had electric baseboard heat installed here when I build this house as a summer home for the children when they were growing up/retirement home for myself eventually. A large home, lots of windows, cold climate, and I literally save thousands a year over electric heat. And that was so when I was paying 7 cents a kwh, not the close to 30 cents now paying.
I had electric baseboard heat installed here when I build this house as a summer home for the children when they were growing up/retirement home for myself eventually. A large home, lots of windows, cold climate, and I literally save thousands a year over electric heat. And that was so when I was paying 7 cents a kwh, not the close to 30 cents now paying.
mark cline
Minister of Fire
This was a fun exercise to calculate the cost to heat my house , but only the first year we were in this house , did we use nat gas. In 1980 it was only about $600 / yr. Since 1981, we have used wood exclusively for heat , so minus gas for cooking, hot water , clothes drying, my gas usage is about $250 / yr at todays prices .
Heating with wood costs / yr
wood free
diesel fuel for tractor $25
gas for chainsaw and splitter $25
2 stroke oil, oil change , filter on tractor $40
misc parts , tools , chainsaw maint, etc. $50
Hydration ( bottled water, beer afterwards) $50
So I'm at less than $200 / yr for heat to produce about 10 cord , with that , my son helps and uses this firewood for his house , so bottom line , cost / cord is $20
With that I get free exercise , spending time with my son , and an overwhelming feeling of accomplishment . I trade 1 1/2 cord for a 250 lb. hog and barter using my wood as trade. So I call it a hobby to a point , which in turns gives me exercise, bonding with the family, food for the table etc. which means my woodlot is paying me in a sense. As far as using the money that I saved for heat , I never realized my savings, in other words its the cost of living .so money not spent on fuel =money used for food etc, which lowers my whole cost of living .
Heating with wood costs / yr
wood free
diesel fuel for tractor $25
gas for chainsaw and splitter $25
2 stroke oil, oil change , filter on tractor $40
misc parts , tools , chainsaw maint, etc. $50
Hydration ( bottled water, beer afterwards) $50
So I'm at less than $200 / yr for heat to produce about 10 cord , with that , my son helps and uses this firewood for his house , so bottom line , cost / cord is $20
With that I get free exercise , spending time with my son , and an overwhelming feeling of accomplishment . I trade 1 1/2 cord for a 250 lb. hog and barter using my wood as trade. So I call it a hobby to a point , which in turns gives me exercise, bonding with the family, food for the table etc. which means my woodlot is paying me in a sense. As far as using the money that I saved for heat , I never realized my savings, in other words its the cost of living .so money not spent on fuel =money used for food etc, which lowers my whole cost of living .
rasp21
Member
Wood= free. I burn 24-7. When the temp. falls below 40*F I turn off my heat pump and use the elect. furnace as backup. I will add here that I only pay .0233 a KWH for elect. so I could just turn up the stat. and it would not be expensive. I also built my house as passive solar, get fair sun even in the winter. I have my own wood lot and all the tools to process the fire wood, so I would have to say I do enjoy the wood heat, and the knowledge that I can heat my house in an occasional power outage.
Phoenix Hatchling
Minister of Fire
Through not buying your wood you say you save $700 a year. How much time per year do you spend in hours felling the trees, bucking, cutting rounds, moving rounds, splitting, stacking, moving again, starting fires, cleaning ashes, and cleaning stacks? Now, take that amount and multiply by your calculated hourly rate of pay for your salary (aka what your time is worth) and you'll come up with a better representation of what your paying for heat. Still 700?
I entered $10.. I live in the woods. I am retired. I don't own a single tool or piece of equipment, besides maybe the Fisker Super Splitter, that I didn't own before we started heating with wood. There is no wood in my piles that is from more than a mile or two of where it's stacked, and that is a small percentage, we belong to a small, rural, elderly church congregation.. a widow has a tree or limb down, they call us. So some is from a little farther than our property.
But the benefits far outweigh the costs. I get exercise. I get the satisfaction of doing for myself. In case of power outage (which is why we got a stove after the '09 ice storm) we have heat. And honestly, the house not only IS warmer with the stove, it feels better/warmer than with the heat pump..
Phoenix Hatchling
Minister of Fire
Nobody ever seems to call those hours spent "labor"...which is exactly what it is.
Yes. It takes me about a day and half to cut buck split and stack a cord, So takes about a week of my year to heat the house. My take home pay is such that , using your calculations it would take me two weeks to heat the house. With 15 acres of mature hardwoods, it's no big deal, usually 1 or two large trees down or dead every year, between that and cleaning up downed limbs.. done.
Then so is walking the dog, cooking dinner, laundry, washing the car, shopping with the wife, etc etc etc.. I call it... life. It's only "labor" if you don't like it.
I call dealing with wood exercise, and as a retired combat arms soldier, I don't mind.. in fact sometimes I still exercise just for fun.. I generally call it hiking, camping, hunting, or messin' with wood.
If you are self employed, IRS puts no value on your time/labor. Client doesn't pay you, you can't write off your labor costs in supplying the client.
Only makes sense to count in labor cost if doing the labor really is keeping you from performing work for which you are financially compensated. We all do a lot around home and for family and friends. I would hope we don't spend our lives calculating the potential cost of these activities. These are the things we choose to do with our lives. Hopefully we make good choices. For many, gathering firewood is a good choice. For some, it is not.
Only makes sense to count in labor cost if doing the labor really is keeping you from performing work for which you are financially compensated. We all do a lot around home and for family and friends. I would hope we don't spend our lives calculating the potential cost of these activities. These are the things we choose to do with our lives. Hopefully we make good choices. For many, gathering firewood is a good choice. For some, it is not.
I burn scrap wood that i have to find a way to dispose of it. Cant think of a better way than turning it to BTUs that i need anyway. Also saves disposal cost and time.
Last i processed wood was 5 years ago. Still have 2 cord of that seasoned oak. I burn the junk wood first. As i have so much of the junk wood and get more all the time ,i rarely burn any of my premium seasoned oak.
Thislilfishy
Member
In my mind, counting sweat equity as a cost is shear nonsense. I don't get paid to sit on the couch, which is what I would likely be doing if not processing wood.
However counting sweat equity as a saved value makes more sense. If I spend a day cutting wood that I scrounge then my cost is fuel and wear and tear. Minus what I would have paid to have wood delivered already cut, split, and stacked equals how much money I made per hour watching TV. Seriously folks, that labour is paid by how much you save not how much you could earn at work. So maybe with chopping wood you could have paid yourself $5/hr, which is crap if you could have been at work, but great if you were just gonna grab a beer and eat a pizza.
Then I can subtract estimated propane costs vs actual cost and I have my savings in propane. This seasons wood has a total cost to me of about $250-300, my estimated propane cost (at today's value of 65.9c per Litre) would have been in the order of $5-600 this month based on the last three year average for this term. My actual cost was $189. Essentially my wood was paid for this year by a total cost of about 3 days labour, 4 if I count the cedar I cut up and don't expect to really burn. Ah heck, let's call it a full week. Now the worst three propane bills are yet to come with averages in the $800/month range previously, but my propane cost is 20% higher this year so it would have been staggering this year. This will be the real tell for me, if we can keep in that $2-300/month range for propane, our Woodstove install should be paid off in two years...then if we get another 5 years out of it with no major repairs or expenses, well that's sweat equity that became a huge investment with real world money in hand.
Ian
However counting sweat equity as a saved value makes more sense. If I spend a day cutting wood that I scrounge then my cost is fuel and wear and tear. Minus what I would have paid to have wood delivered already cut, split, and stacked equals how much money I made per hour watching TV. Seriously folks, that labour is paid by how much you save not how much you could earn at work. So maybe with chopping wood you could have paid yourself $5/hr, which is crap if you could have been at work, but great if you were just gonna grab a beer and eat a pizza.
Then I can subtract estimated propane costs vs actual cost and I have my savings in propane. This seasons wood has a total cost to me of about $250-300, my estimated propane cost (at today's value of 65.9c per Litre) would have been in the order of $5-600 this month based on the last three year average for this term. My actual cost was $189. Essentially my wood was paid for this year by a total cost of about 3 days labour, 4 if I count the cedar I cut up and don't expect to really burn. Ah heck, let's call it a full week. Now the worst three propane bills are yet to come with averages in the $800/month range previously, but my propane cost is 20% higher this year so it would have been staggering this year. This will be the real tell for me, if we can keep in that $2-300/month range for propane, our Woodstove install should be paid off in two years...then if we get another 5 years out of it with no major repairs or expenses, well that's sweat equity that became a huge investment with real world money in hand.
Ian
Yeah, unless I could go into work and make money during the hours I spent processing wood, then I don't count that time as money. Maybe some people could go in to work whenever they want and make extra money, but on my days off I can't. Now if its interfering with other things competing for your time is another story (family time, hobbies, etc) but if your otherwise going to be sitting in your basement on the computer or watching tv, then as far as I am concerned the time spent while processing wood is only beneficial. Fresh air, good workout, etc. I put a value on my time processing wood, I mean in a positive way. Like its a valuable thing for me to be doing.
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Heating with electric is darn close to the amount of money I spend on wood ($0.076/ kWh). I have to buy all my wood at $250 a cord (hardwood). I don't have any equipment or woodlots even if I wanted to somehow get it for "free".
Nobody in my family heats with wood other than me. My dad thinks I am nuts. Personally, heating with wood is "the thing I love the most out of all the things I hate". Why? I love HEATING with wood. I enjoy watching the flames, warming by the fire, etc. However, I hate doing all the work with a wheel barrow. If I had a pickup truck, splitter, tandem dumping trailer, 3 days off a week and a woodlot I would consider doing it myself. BUt my reality is that I have 2 young kids, lots of hobbies and pass times besides wood stacking/moving (by hand once again). I go to the gym (crossfit/ seal fit) and play sports for exercise. I will admit that moving 3 cords of wood by hand in a day over a distance of 80 feet and re-stacking is a workout, it won't keep me in shape year round. I consider my "wood dealings" as much exercise as a 1 day hike up mount Katahdin in Maine.
I burn because I like it. I won't try and fluff it up by saying it's exercise, etc. LOL. But that's me. Between being an active father with my 2 kids, taking them to extra curricular activities, helping friends/neighbours with whatever help they need, working full time (and sometimes travelling out of town for 1-2 weeks at a time), typical things around a house and trying to find quality time with the Mrs, wood stacking/splitting falls to the bottom of my list. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy burning wood but wood processing hasn't made it on my "what do you want to do during your 3 weeks of summer vacation" list. 1 weekend in the fall?? Sure. lol. BUt that's just me. I am 34 and don't own a PS4 or XBOX ONE.
Andrew
Nobody in my family heats with wood other than me. My dad thinks I am nuts. Personally, heating with wood is "the thing I love the most out of all the things I hate". Why? I love HEATING with wood. I enjoy watching the flames, warming by the fire, etc. However, I hate doing all the work with a wheel barrow. If I had a pickup truck, splitter, tandem dumping trailer, 3 days off a week and a woodlot I would consider doing it myself. BUt my reality is that I have 2 young kids, lots of hobbies and pass times besides wood stacking/moving (by hand once again). I go to the gym (crossfit/ seal fit) and play sports for exercise. I will admit that moving 3 cords of wood by hand in a day over a distance of 80 feet and re-stacking is a workout, it won't keep me in shape year round. I consider my "wood dealings" as much exercise as a 1 day hike up mount Katahdin in Maine.
I burn because I like it. I won't try and fluff it up by saying it's exercise, etc. LOL. But that's me. Between being an active father with my 2 kids, taking them to extra curricular activities, helping friends/neighbours with whatever help they need, working full time (and sometimes travelling out of town for 1-2 weeks at a time), typical things around a house and trying to find quality time with the Mrs, wood stacking/splitting falls to the bottom of my list. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy burning wood but wood processing hasn't made it on my "what do you want to do during your 3 weeks of summer vacation" list. 1 weekend in the fall?? Sure. lol. BUt that's just me. I am 34 and don't own a PS4 or XBOX ONE.
Andrew
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