could this be the problem

[iceman]

i am having a hard time burning coals i believe it has something to do with the draft (as pointed out by others and pe)
but could this be part of it
i have 6 flues up there with maybe 8-10 inches of height before the cap 2 flues are inactive, the other 4 are a woostove insert, gas insert fireplace and furnance/gas water tank coming out of the rest do you think the cap could be to close which could be a possible on why i am having draft issues?

 

[webbie]

burning coals? Explain

Is this a one story house? Total height of chimney from the stove up?

 

[iceman]

burning coals? Explain

Is this a one story house? Total height of chimney from the stove up?

yes the coals won't finish burning .. there was another thread going but it seemed to have died
is about 14-16 feet of liner we ran and it is one story (unless the basment counts) however the the stove is located on the ground level part .. as i mentioned it is only going 14-16 ft
pe says 15 ft min my installer says we did run about 16
but every morning i have a good 4-6 inch coal bed and unless i get up give it more air , move them around they eventually get shovelled out a big black coal i can not get them to burn down ... the wood i am using is dry and seasoned

 

[begreen]

As a test, how about temporarily attaching a 4 ft galv pipe extension to the flue? It will give you some meaningful results without spending a lot.

 

[webbie]

It does sound like it may be a little short on draft. I assume you have already tried leaving the air control open a bit more?

 

[Gunner]

As you already know you are on the low end of the required height. That being said I have 24' of chimney and also get huge amounts of coals in the morning during cold weather and hard burning... IMO it's a blessing not a curse. Sometimes after 3-4 back to back full loads it will take the better part of the day to burn them down. I rake everthing forward and put 1 large SOFTWOOD split E/W. Stovetop temp will rise to 6-700...I am able to produce the heat I need while burning the coals down, I repeat this 2 or 3 times to burn everthing down. Start burning softwood and you will solve your problem. Agree with what craig said leave the air open more during your overnight burn, it will peak out alittle higher but you will have less coals in the morning.

 

[iceman]

As a test, how about temporarily attaching a 4 ft galv pipe extension to the flue? It will give you some meaningful results without spending a lot.

i did just add a 2ft section seems to be well... not sure yet

 

[iceman]

As you already know you are on the low end of the required height. That being said I have 24' of chimney and also get huge amounts of coals in the morning during cold weather and hard burning... IMO it's a blessing not a curse. Sometimes after 3-4 back to back full loads it will take the better part of the day to burn them down. I rake everthing forward and put 1 large SOFTWOOD split E/W. Stovetop temp will rise to 6-700...I am able to produce the heat I need while burning the coals down, I repeat this 2 or 3 times to burn everthing down. Start burning softwood and you will solve your problem. Agree with what craig said leave the air open more during your overnight burn, it will peak out alittle higher but you will have less coals in the morning.

if you have 24 feet and the same thing going on then wow i give up i will have to get softwood ... but here in the northeast where?
over the summer i will start collecting pine ... tree guys around here all they sell is mixed hard... or oak!

 

[ctlovell]

Maybe ask the tree guys or the guy you buy your wood from and let him or they know you are looking for softwoods. When my family owned a hardware store we had big softwood logs out back to test run chain saws in and we got them free from tree guys who were pretty happy to get rid of these large tree length logs. They couldn't sell them but they had to remove them from the customer's property after the job was done and they would drop them off to us. Start with your wood guy, you may be surprised what he has to say or what he does for you.

 

[dsil]

Tree guys sell hardwood because that is what everyone buys. They do take down alot of pines, and probably stack em out to rot. You could probably get a tree guy to call you when he does get pine if you let him know that is what you want to buy.

 

[Gunner]

Burning lots of hardwood is going to produce loats of coals...there is no way around it.

When you load up for an overnight burn what do you set the draft lever at? and what temp does the insert peak out at? (you have the thermo by the door right?)

Do you get any smoke rollout when you reload, trouble starting a fire, chimney reversal?

Adding height will improve your draft but I don't think it will solve your coal problem.

Review for some but worth reading again
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/tips/toomuchcharcoal.htm)

 

[BrotherBart]

I see all of you "run it up and shut it down and let EBT take over" guys up to your ears in big coals. I don't see how it could be any other way. Gunner's keeping on asking you about where you have the primary air set is right on the money. When the wood goes to coal stage EBT has completely shut down the primary air so the only thing the stove is getting is what it can pull in through the baffle. Way to high up there to burn down those coals. Not being "blessed" with EBT I run brownie with an inch of primary air and after an eight or ten hour burn there are just enough coals in the back of the stove to rake'em up front and reload. Don't know how long a full load would burn. Haven't done it since last year.

Give that thing some air to breathe. If it wants more EBT will give it too it. If it doesn't it won't. And back it down around four or five hundred and let EBT take it where it wants to go.

 

[Gunner]

Huge coal beds are generally only a problem in very cold weather. The problem is made worse by a) poorly insulated house that looses heat quickly b)an undersized heater.

When it's -15C or colder and I'm relaoding at 400deg stovetop is when coals start to get in the way for me, that's when I employ the single softwood split E/W and full air technique.

 

[iceman]

thanks for the link !
i have tried wit it shut all the way and about 2 inches open what i noticed is what you said even when its open the air isn't making it down to the coals....
i was putting a piece e/w in the back but i will try right on top in the front
i am also getting very long burns out of my summit if you count how long the coals are there lol.... i can easily go 12hrs throw a piece in an poof instant fire!
my therm usually goes between 625 and 725 most of the time it stay around 575 -600 (after peaking) i do not know what the stove top temp is as mine is an insert and placed on the front right corner
i just put a piece in e/w in the front was kinda big to and they are burning away!! now i will rake the stuff fronm the back and try it again 2 morrow

 

[BrotherBart]

Gunner could I ask a favor? Could you please put a thermo on the corner of the front of your free standing Summit and measure the temp difference between the stove top temp and that one. I know that there has always been a hundred to two hundred degree difference between them with every stove I have ever owned and I would really like to know just how hot these guys are really burning these Summit inserts.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gunner]

Gunner could I ask a favor? Could you please put a thermo on the corner of the front of your free standing Summit and measure the temp difference between the stove top temp and that one. I know that there has always been a hundred to two hundred degree difference between them with every stove I have ever owned and I would really like to know just how hot these guys are really burning these Summit inserts.

Thanks in advance.

No problem BB

 

[Hogwildz]

I had Icemans coal problems last year. This year I rarely have that problem. At 27' of chimney, draft is not an issue, maybe too much draft, but certainly not enough.
This year, I can count on one hand the amount of times I had serious coal depth that hindered me. Ice, I still say slap a 4' pc of galvanized on the top, screw 2', go for 4'. See if that improves draft. As far as the coals, I think you will find that this time next year after learning more about your stove & the wood you burn, you will have less coals. I fill it to the gills, get it blazing, cut back around 500 or so, cruises to 750 and in the morn I got just the right amount for a reload. If I have a bit many coals, I open the air up all the way and in an hour Its feeding time. Not knocking you, but I think maybe not all, but some of this is part of your learning curve.

 

[TruePatriot]

from BrotherBart

I see all of you “run it up and shut it down and let EBT take over” guys up to your ears in big coals. I don’t see how it could be any other way. Gunner’s keeping on asking you about where you have the primary air set is right on the money. When the wood goes to coal stage EBT has completely shut down the primary air so the only thing the stove is getting is what it can pull in through the baffle.

(bold added for emphasis)

To the PE owners:

Please see the comment, above, which confuses me. Because I thought that the EBT in a PE only metered the SECONDARY air. I thought that the primary air was manually controlled, and not part of the EBT's temperature-driven (thermostatically-controlled?) feedback loop? A year ago, I was more familiar with PE, when I was "shopping" them--so apologies to BB and others, if I've not remembered this correctly.

I'm just too lazy to look it up and I know there's a PE owner here who knows this stuff cold. (no pun intended)

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Jimbob]

The EBT ONLY meters PRIMARY air. The secondary air is NOT metered at all on the Summits, except that a stronger draft pulls more air in through the secondary system.

 

[Gunner]

To add to what jimbob said the secondary on a summit is fix open and in not reduced along with the primary air when you close the air control.

The primary air is never COMPLETELY shut down, as there is a stop limiting it like every other EPA stove.

The EBT cannot reduce the primary air below what you have it set at...it can only ADD to it.

 

[begreen]

Calling Tom to the front desk. EBT on front burner #1.

My understanding was that the EBT controls both primary and secondary air. I thought it directly controls the intake air on the stove. Think of it as a valve on the OAK. Because the primary air can only be shut down a fixed amount, the air goes to both primary and secondary.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm)

 

[Gunner]

For some reason spike's film loop is not working
(broken link removed)

but it shows the secondary air intake in the bottom of the stove at the back...it is wide open, all the time. The ebt is on the front right side. there is no way for it to meter secondary air.

 

[TruePatriot]

To Jimbob and Gunner:

If that is true, (that EBT ONLY controls the PRIMARY air), then I wish someone had told the chick I spoke with last year, at PE's factory, in B.C. or wherever it is, in Canada. Because she told me there was thermostatic control of the secondary air, only. I remember that more clearly now (no adult beverage near the computer) because I remember saying to her that I didn't see that distinction being made clear, in PE's literature.

Of course, I should have been suspicious, because this same rep. also told me that the PE Summit Classic would only accept a round of "7.5 to 8" in diameter, and both Roospike and Gunner corrected this mistake, the latter by showing me a photo of a 9" split going through the doorway! LOL (Thanks, Gunner! To be fair, she did admit she was "guessing" on the max. diameter round the stove would accept, but one would think she could have opened a stove and used a ruler, like Gunner did, right? She said she didn't have any stoves where she was. Okay, that's not ideal, but she could have had some literature on this important dimension, right? Oh well.)

But, given the link BeGreen has provided (admittedly, not to the PE website, but interesting nevertheless) does anyone have any documentation from PE that the EBT controls the primary air? Because if I could find my original notes, I'd send a link to such documentation to the chick that told me PE's EBT only metered secondary air....

Or is the bimetallic spring visible on the stove, where you can actually see which air intake(s?) it's metering?

Jeez...I coulda hadda PE! :bug: Now, if we could just get Lowes to sell them for $449.50, plus tax! :lol:

 

[begreen]

For a discussion (and Frank Ivy classic) about EBT, here's an oldie but goodie thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/364/

 

[webbie]

Frank Ivy....a true classic. Sid Vicious will never die!