Country Stoves Performer 210 not "performing"

[simonorcal]

Hello stove Guru's,
I apologize in advance if this has been covered before but my search did not come back with anything.

I have the said stove above that I purchased off the CL, used with very light use but had been sitting a while. The only thing that I could see it needed was a new door gasket which I replaced. I installed it into a masonry chimney with 8" flex that I had already. This stove has a 6" outlet so I adapted it to the 8".


The stove just does not burn well. Tough to get going and once it's going it won't burn well unless the door is cracked open even with the air inlet all the way open.
Here is what I checked:
-chimney and cap are clear and unrestricted
-intake is clear
-catalyst bars are clear
-air inlet by glass is clear


is there another inlet that could be clogged? I am at a loss!

 

[bholler]

Hello stove Guru's,
I apologize in advance if this has been covered before but my search did not come back with anything.

I have the said stove above that I purchased off the CL, used with very light use but had been sitting a while. The only thing that I could see it needed was a new door gasket which I replaced. I installed it into a masonry chimney with 8" flex that I had already. This stove has a 6" outlet so I adapted it to the 8".


The stove just does not burn well. Tough to get going and once it's going it won't burn well unless the door is cracked open even with the air inlet all the way open.
Here is what I checked:
-chimney and cap are clear and unrestricted
-intake is clear
-catalyst bars are clear
-air inlet by glass is clear


is there another inlet that could be clogged? I am at a loss!

View attachment 238326

What moisture content is your wood at?

 

[jatoxico]

If the stove was designed to use a 6" liner and you have an 8" you've almost doubled the cross sectional area required. Some stoves will work depending on how tall the chimney is but your draft may be marginal.

The other question which almost always comes up and is almost always a problem for new burners is the wood itself. When was it cut and split?

 

[jetsam]

The stove's manual says there is an air control on the lower left side. That would explain things if you didn't know that was there.

The manual also says that using a too-large flue causes poor draft, and that the stove needs dry wood. (That's the same stuff the guys above already said, but it bears repeating.)

 

[simonorcal]

What moisture content is your wood at?

If the stove was designed to use a 6" liner and you have an 8" you've almost doubled the cross sectional area required. Some stoves will work depending on how tall the chimney is but your draft may be marginal.

The other question which almost always comes up and is almost always a problem for new burners is the wood itself. When was it cut and split?

I have tried many different types of wood... bone dry demential lumber, seasoned pine, season split oak... dry or damp doesn't matter if I have a good bed of coals. I have owed 3 wood stoves before this and have not had tis problem with the others.

 

[simonorcal]

I have tried many types of wood... bone dry dimensional lumber, seasoned oak, seasoned pine.... dry or wet it doesn't matter once I have a bed of coals. It wants the door cracked no matter what.

The stove's manual says there is an air control on the lower left side. That would explain things if you didn't know that was there.
The manual also says that using a too-large flue causes poor draft, and that the stove needs dry wood. (That's the same stuff the guys above already said, but it bears repeating.)

Yes I'm well aware of the air control.

I did think about the bigger flue but I'm not sure that's the problem. I have had modern stoves with only a starter pipe (2') and a draft stop in to a big masonry chimney (10"x20"). The only drawback I had with that was it was a bit harder to start but once going it would burn as it should.

If I crack the door it burns great! Would this happen if I had a draft problem?

Anyone familiar with this particular stove? Is there somewhere that ash can build up?

 

[begreen]

Draft is important for good stove operation. Is this connected to an 8" liner that goes from stove to chimney top? If yes, how tall is it?

 

[simonorcal]

Draft is important for good stove operation. Is this connected to an 8" liner that goes from stove to chimney top? If yes, how tall is it?

its aprox 15'

 

[weatherguy]

its aprox 15'

That's probably the issue, poor draft, what other stoves did you own?

 

[begreen]

For the moment, assume that the stove is not the issue. It's normally a good heater. The stove has a mismatched flue which is reducing draft. The outdoor temps are mild, further weakening draft. If the wood is not fully seasoned, the stove simply will not heat well.

 

[simonorcal]

That's probably the issue, poor draft, what other stoves did you own?

For the moment, assume that the stove is not the issue. It's normally a good heater. The stove has a mismatched flue which is reducing draft. The outdoor temps are mild, further weakening draft. If the wood is not fully seasoned, the stove simply will not heat well.

ok so you guys are saying that the 8" liner is not allowing a good enough draft... will a 6" liner fix the problem?

I had a Lopi answer and a Avalon Rainer both installed with a draft stop with no liner in a different house. These were even more modern stoves with cat II epa junk and they would both rip. The only reason I went from the answer to the Rainer is the answer was a bit undersized.

 

[kennyp2339]

There was a thread from a member (California) that had the same issue with I think the same stove 2 years ago, he changed out the liner to a 6" after a few months of posting poor performance issues and fighting about not needing a 6" liner, after the new liner was installed he came back and apologized to everyone.

 

[mellow]

Swap to an insulated 6" liner since it is only 15' and insulate that fireplace and install a block off plate and I think you will be surprised with the difference in heat output.

Check the manual and make sure the baffle is installed correctly.

Btw, no catalyst in that stove, just secondary air tubes.

 

[simonorcal]

Thanks for the input!
Definitely not gonna fight you guys... lol. Just trying to understand the physics is the only reason I gave my other experience.

 

[weatherguy]

Thanks for the input!
Definitely not gonna fight you guys... lol. Just trying to understand the physics is the only reason I gave my other experience.

Sounds like those other stoves had the correct size flue, makes a huge difference.

 

[begreen]

I had a Lopi answer and a Avalon Rainer both installed with a draft stop with no liner in a different house. These were even more modern stoves with cat II epa junk and they would both rip. The only reason I went from the answer to the Rainer is the answer was a bit undersized.

There is no cat junk in any of the mentioned stoves. They are all non-cat stoves. Different house, different heating requirement and different circumstances. Also different wood?

I'm inclined to agree with you. The C210 is a good heater and usually not that fussy about draft. It should work on the 8" flue, it's just that the increase in area in the flue isn't helping. The easiest thing to try is to change the wood. See if you can get some known, well seasoned wood from a friend or local source. Or try adding some dry 2x4 cuttoffs to the fire.

One thing you can check in the stove is to make sure that the 4 baffle bricks are properly in place and most importantly that the baffle blankets (there are 2) are laying flat on top of the baffle and not bunched up toward the rear (and blocking smoke flow).

 

[simonorcal]

There is no cat junk in any of the mentioned stoves. They are all non-cat stoves. Different house, different heating requirement and different circumstances. Also different wood?

I'm inclined to agree with you. The C210 is a good heater and usually not that fussy about draft. It should work on the 8" flue, it's just that the increase in area in the flue isn't helping. The easiest thing to try is to change the wood. See if you can get some known, well seasoned wood from a friend or local source. Or try adding some dry 2x4 cuttoffs to the fire.

One thing you can check in the stove is to make sure that the 4 baffle bricks are properly in place and most importantly that the baffle blankets (there are 2) are laying flat on top of the baffle and not bunched up toward the rear (and blocking smoke flow).

My mistake, I meant the burn tubes. I have used friends non-epa / non-burn tube stoves in the past and they seem not fussy at all. But that's my experience and my not be the rule. In my research I was surprised that those stoves I listed were not more temperamental in the past. That is the only point I trying to make.

I live on 10 acres and have access to very seasoned and not so seasoned oak and pine. I also have nice dry scrap construction off cuts. I have tried the best wood that I can find and it does not change the outcome drastically. It will all burn nicely its the door is cracked.

I do not have any baffle blankets... I didn't know that was a thing. I will give em a try... better that, than blowing $300+ on 15' of 6" SS right off the bat.

thank you

 

[kborndale]

I would have to think that its the 8" flue as well, is that 8" flue insulated? The good news is that if you have an 8" liner in the chimney already it wont be difficult to fit a 6" insulated liner in there, and I strongly recommend putting in an insulated liner if/when you switch to 6".

 

[begreen]

I do not have any baffle blankets... I didn't know that was a thing. I will give em a try... better that, than blowing $300+ on 15' of 6" SS right off the bat.

The blankets sit side by side on the baffle bricks. They help the firebox get hotter.

Older non-EPA stoves did run easier and were less fussy about draft because there was a simple path for the air to the fire to up the stack. Modern non-cat stoves using a burn tube system rely on the vacuum created in the firebox to pull air through a secondary air system. The turns in the secondary air path from air intake to the holes in the secondary tubes add resistance. As the primary air is closed down, the vacuum starts to overcome this resistance and pulls air through the secondary tubes. That's why closing down the air to say 50-75% once the fire is burning well will make the stove get hotter, as long as the wood is fully seasoned.

It could still be that the weakening of draft by the 8" flue is a problem. Sometimes local terrain and or chimney location can affect draft. Sometimes it's the house itself. Have you tried opening a nearby door or window an inch to see if that affects how the stove burns? If there is a notable improvement then the stove needs a better air supply.