Creosote Questions

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

Hello Everyone!

I am brand new to the forum and to wood stove heating. We had 11 large trees felled in Feb 2013, I have/had been cutting into chunks since, and we split aprox. 6 cords 1mo ago (putting most of it under tarps for the time being).

We have a Medium Pleasant Hearth that we got an amazing deal on at Lowes (fits 22" logs too, which was important to us). Put it on a 18" platform to make loading easier and for storage underneath.


We have been burning since the Final Inspection passed on 12/11. Have not needed the electric furnace the whole time (just been running the furnace fan to circulate air)! It burns well and heats the whole house (1300SF with cathedral ceilings) effectively (it was 7º the other night and was 79º inside). It has been, at times, a little tricky to keep going at the temp I feel (with my limited knowledge) will prevent creosote, which brings me to my question...

Can all you "pros" fellow wood burners comment on the (broken link removed)? I am not sure if this is a "normal" amount of black & sticky for the short amount of time we have been burning (nearly 24x7 since 12/11). I can't tell if the discoloring on the top/outside of the stainless triple wall is from too much heat or from staining. I got a ROARING fire going just before sitting down to write this and took some flue temp readings at the cap (it maxed out my kitchen thermometer at 390º and was still climbing well).
There is some noticeable dripping on the outside of the chimney and on the flashing.

Any advise would be most appreciated! I know you are supposed to burn well seasoned wood (1yr) and I feel that our wood, even though it has been "dead" since Feb is not quite dry enough. We have been bringing in a few loads at a time into the garage and stacking it with a fan blowing on it to help dray it faster. I am only putting pieces in that have defined checking on the ends.

Draft is VERY good! All else seems to be working great!

Pictures Here
(broken link removed)

Medium Pleasant Hearth (w/ blower)

on custom slate platform (Micore 160 1" & Durock 1/2" - giving R3+)​

DuraVent DuraBlack Stove Pipe
DuraVent Triple Wall Stainless
DuraVent Basic Ceiling Kit (on 6/12 roof)

 

[Papa-Yankee-Romeo-Oscar]

Depending on the type of wood it will need to be split and stacked for at the very least a year to get it good and dry. Some woods take upwards of 3 years. One month split and stacked will not be dry enough.

 

[MDFisherman]

x2 on the wood being no where near dry enough. If you can find some dry wood, scrap lumber etc. to mix in it would help keep the flue temps up.

The birdscreen on that chimney cap is a prime spot for creosote build up so check it regularly.

 

[Smoke Stack]

That doesn't look all that bad. Just Google creosote buildup in the pics and you'll see what bad looks like. Nevertheless, clean that chimney often while burning green wood. Hopefully you can do it yourself.

From my observations, the discoloring is from the hot smoke rolling down the pipe from the wind when it exits the cap. Mine does the same thing and I wouldn't worry too much about it. The discoloration will go away, and then come back when the wind is forcing the smoke down a little bit. My chimney is Selkirk.

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

So it warmed up enough (50s-60's yesterday, today and tomorrow) that I decided to shutdown and inspect after 10 days of nearly 24x7 operation.

I cleaned the firebox, cleaned the glass (the wet newspaper & ash method works great) and generally cleaned up the area. I broke down the single wall and inspected my creosote fears. I am not really sure how to take what I see... again first time wood burner here

The base layer of shiny black is, best I can tell, only 1/32" or less thick. But the "ashy peaks" are my concern (should they be?). They are roughly a 1/4" tall. Is this NORMAL for 10 days of 24x7 operation? (given the less than stellar wood used). *Full Disclosure* I have used 4 4hour burn "starter logs" in it in those 10 days. Do those cause more creosote than just wood? I kinda think they might...

Brush comes tomorrow (yeah, Amazon shows guaranteed delivery on a Sunday!) and I have my 1/2" PVC conduit all assembled, marked and drilled. Just need a trip to Lowes for the conversion to 1/4-20 and I'll be in business.



Baffle removed and taped up the secondaries, ready for sweeping tomorrow.

 

[SKIN052]

I think i like the stove set up, different than most but thats the part I like. However, if i read this right, that build up is from less than 2 weeks of 24/ burning? If thats the case, then yes, that is way too much build up, your wood is not dry enough.

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

I think i like the stove set up, different than most but thats the part I like. However, if i read this right, that build up is from less than 2 weeks of 24/ burning? If thats the case, then yes, that is way too much build up, your wood is not dry enough.

Yeah, We wanted it up some. The front parts will be black stained oak plywood and trim. Center section will be removable to store stuff under.

I knew most of the wood was too wet, would take too long to get going (hence the 4 "starter logs"). We are getting the stuff dried out in the garage before burning it, so I think that will help. Maybe my question is, how thick can I let it get before it NEEDS to be brushed? If 10 days gets me 1/32" maybe I can go a month between cleanings?

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

thats quite a bit for 10 days. Heres what mine looks like after 45 days. Im no expert by any means but i'd clean it every 25-30 days at least if it was me.

 

[begreen]

Get a magnetic stove thermometer and tell us what temps the stove top and/or flue is running at. It could be that you will need to give the fire a little more air and burn a bit hotter at least once a day if the wood is marginal. Clean the flue after burning the first cord of wood. And get next year's wood stacked now.

 

[HotCoals]

Who made the starter logs?
I don't like the looks of that gunk at all.

 

[SKIN052]

You mentioned you wanted to be safe which needs to come first of course. The problem is that some of it looks black and shiny, recipe for a fire. With creosote in the chimney and wet wood to burn you tend to try and burn really hot to get the wood going. If you happen to spark the creosote you will have a chimney fire. If this is the build up after 2 weeks then clean every 2 weeks. As for the wood in the shed, get or borrow someones dehumidifier and place it next to the wood, it may help a little.

 

[ArsenalDon]

IMHO you are not burning hot enough. From what you are saying I think that the wood you are burning is not seasoned enough which means that you are not getting the BTU's that you would get with seasoned wood.
What info you are leaving out is exactly what type of wood you are burning. If for example you are burning Ponderosa Pine that was cut down from dead trees and split in Feb '13 then the wood is seasoned and is not the issue, if it was hardwood then it is in no way ready to burn.

 

[Smoke Stack]

Those pics give a different perspective. That does look pretty bad for two weeks of burning. I'm new to this as well and when I checked mine after a week and a half of burning it didn't look anything like that. I'm not burning the the best seasoned wood either and I found that my cap was the worst as far as buildup.

That's awesome that you can clean it yourself. You can essentially sweep those worries away. If my understanding is correct, all creosote is bad, but that shiny black stuff is the worst. That's the stuff you don't want to build up at all, the flaky stuff comes right off.

Best of luck! Sweep, baby, sweep!

 

[Lumber-Jack]

The problem with that sticky creosote is that it doesn't clean off with normal brushing, and it will make a mess of your roof and the outside of your pipe, as you see it is already doing.. I've been burning 5 years with my current setup, and you've already got more staining on your roof and pipe in 10 days.
The only advice I can give you is to get yourself some dry wood.
Do you have a moisture meter?

 

[ddahlgren]

You are asking to burn your house down with that wood in my opinion. I would split the wood down to something like 2X3s and mix it with old pallets bio-bricks or similar along those lines. The worst part is you are losing a bunch of heat by boiling the water out of the wet wood. I would clean at least every 10 days and burn hot and fast though it will get to the point the work is more than it is worth. If you split now the smaller pieces might be ready next winter.

 

[DougA]

The creosote is way worse than I see in mine after burning for a full season. First thing I would do after a good chimney cleaning is buy a good thermometer (preferably a digital probe with alarm) and a moisture meter. Most of us can tell dry wood just by the feel and weight but that is from years of working with it. Not everyone can do that.

I disagree that you always need more than 1 year to dry wood. It all depends upon what kind of wood, when it is split, how it is split (size in relation to exposed surface) and how and where you are stacking it to dry. I can burn some wood that is one year old and sometimes it takes much more. Proper stacking in a dry shed with lots of air circulation is the key IMHO. Most guys just tarp it and the air can't get through and the moisture can't get out as easily. I tend to split mine into smaller pieces than most people and that accelerates the drying by having more surface exposed.

One last thing, the screen you have is the same as mine and it does indeed get some build-up. Without the screen, I was getting birds coming down the chimney. My screen is dry crud and when I take the rain cap off I just bang it a few times and the crud falls off but even then, the chimney is pretty clean. Keep in mind that you will get more build-up on the sections that are outside the house due to the chimney being colder. It appears that you have a lot of chimney outside and that will make a difference. Even with that taken into account, you need to find out what is causing your problem, burning too cool or wood too wet.

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

I understand the wood is the issue, pin oak to be exact. I thought having it chunked since February would have dried it out some... but guess not.

the majority that is visible is not the shiny stuff, and from what I can see, the outside pipe looks better than the single wall. maybe because it's triple wall and no loosing as much heat? I should be sweeping today to see what I can get off. I also got a 5lb pail of the creosote stuff you burn to dry it out.

outside pipe is 3 - 3' sections and have 5' inside of single wall. draft seems very good and gets very hot when in full burn mode. I do see water boiling out the end of some pieces but I try to put a dry in with a questionable price. when loaded at night, I can get 3hrs of burn time before having to add. but this is a small firebox...

I don't feel there is a ny danger of burning the house down... but do feel I need to sweep every couple weeks if I continue this way. I was looking for a moisture meter(will check amazon) but don't have a dehumidifier, I think fan is doing good job in the garage. I monitor the checking of the splits (sized 4-6") and will start splitting them down into smaller as I bring them in.

any other tips? just got the brush in the mail. gonna get my sweep on!

 

[begreen]

Replace the single wall with double-wall connector to keep the flue gases hotter. And bring the wood indoors to dry out faster.

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

Replace the single wall with double-wall connector to keep the flue gases hotter. And bring the wood indoors to dry out faster.

na. then we loose all that radiant heat from stove pipe. and ability to heat water with coper coil (planned).

 

[DougA]

The moisture meter was to measure the moisture content of the wood. I think we misunderstood each other.

Agree that bringing some wood indoors will help dry it out a lot. It all depends upon where it is outdoors and what the weather is like. We've had a lot of blustery snow this past week and the top of my pile in the shed was covered in snow so I had to dig down a bit. The downside of having a pile indoors is that you probably will get bugs that winter in the bark waking up and flying around in your house. 6 of one ....

Today we've got one of the worst ice storms in a decade. After 3 major wind storms this year, I am not even half caught up on cutting the downfalls. I cut & split enough so far for 2 yrs., plus cut only another 2 years and there's 4 or 5 yrs. worth sitting in the bush. Most of the stuff today is big branches. More worthless mess than burnable wood.

Forgot to mention, I'm thinking about pre-heating water with a copper wrap on the pipe once I find & get my new stove. Not done a lot of research on that yet though.

 

[DougA]

BTW, I have found that oak is one of the woods that takes longer to dry than most.

 

[oldspark]

na. then we loose all that radiant heat from stove pipe. and ability to heat water with coper coil (planned).

Sounds like your flue temps are plenty warm already correct?

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

I understood what the moisture meter is for. yes flue temp is good, HOT. I took the surface mount Rutland thermometer back because it sucked! was 200* off from kitchen probe.

has been wet often so far. thinking of bringing 3 cords in and calling it enough for the year, if we burn though it, we're done. busy working on my sap evaporator till February.

 

[HotCoals]

na. then we loose all that radiant heat from stove pipe. and ability to heat water with coper coil (planned).

He gave you sound advice. If you think you have creosote now wait till you pull some more heat out of the flue by trying to heat water with copper wrapped around the pipe.

 

[MrNoBuddySpecial]

alright. sweeping went easier than I expected! was an upper arm workout but went smoothly. could really feel change in resistance when I hit the single wall. got very hard to push but eased up as I worked it (that's what she said).

my PVC conduit pole system worked well.

I got 1 FULL pint of creosote out of the pipes. is this the amount to be expected given the condition of the pipes?


the before and after of top visible triple wall section looks better.
Before

after


I think the majority came from the single wall section. but I have not torn it down again to check. getting colder, going to get a fire going. this wood looks good but only one way of telling!


oh PS to the other guy, they were Kroger brand starter 4hour logs. first couple I sliced into blocks with sawsall and used as needed. last one I used whole.