Daimler Trucks North America is going electric

[begreen]

DTMA, the maker of Freightliner trucks and Thomas school buses is converting its Portland factory to making electric trucks. The first should be rolling out in 2021. They are starting to make electric school buses at their High Point, NC factory. “The road to emissions-free transportation is going to be driven with battery-electric vehicles,” CEO Nielsen said. “I believe the future is electric.”
https://electrek.co/2019/04/24/daimler-electric-trucks-portland/

 

[Seasoned Oak]

School buses may fit right in for electric drive. Since they do a defined route every day and sit for long periods in between when they could be charging, also overnight.

 

[SpaceBus]

School buses may fit right in for electric drive. Since they do a defined route every day and sit for long periods in between when they could be charging, also overnight.

Fleets in general will see the most benefit from electrification.

 

[wilsoncm1]

'Emissions free transportation" I had to suppress a snort (I'm at work and get enough funny looks). Unless they're solar powered, emissions are produced to provide that transportation.

 

[begreen]

Solar, wind, hydro and nuclear are emissions-free. Washington state will ban coal power in five years and power from natural gas in 25 years.

 

[SpaceBus]

'Emissions free transportation" I had to suppress a snort (I'm at work and get enough funny looks). Unless they're solar powered, emissions are produced to provide that transportation.

The NC Freightliner plants are solar powered. I used to drive by one every day. I think the Gaffney SC plant is also on solar.

 

[wilsoncm1]

Solar, wind, hydro and nuclear are emissions-free. Washington state will ban coal power in five years and power from natural gas in 25 years.

Just because govt mandates something, doesn't mean it'll happen. WA is also ripping dams out like there's no tomorrow. How much renewable power is being lost? How many nuke plants are being built right now?

I'm all for emission free transportation, but to make it possible we need to get serious about alternatives not just mandating it.

 

[SpaceBus]

Just because govt mandates something, doesn't mean it'll happen. WA is also ripping dams out like there's no tomorrow. How much renewable power is being lost? How many nuke plants are being built right now?

I'm all for emission free transportation, but to make it possible we need to get serious about alternatives not just mandating it.

Mandates are serious. Look at what happened when the EPA created emissions mandates for wood stoves...

 

[wilsoncm1]

Mandates are serious. Look at what happened when the EPA created emissions mandates for wood stoves...

A state banning fossil fuels for energy production is silly, since power lines don't stop at the state border. All it will do is put local utilities out of business and raise prices.

Also, let's not conflate local rules with national regulations.

 

[SpaceBus]

A state banning fossil fuels for energy production is silly, since power lines don't stop at the state border. All it will do is put local utilities out of business and raise prices.

Also, let's not conflate local rules with national regulations.

It has to start somewhere. Often times the fed follows suit when enough states do something. California has been pushing clean air for decades and it's making a difference. There are more options than 100% change and doing nothing.

 

[wilsoncm1]

It has to start somewhere. Often times the fed follows suit when enough states do something. California has been pushing clean air for decades and it's making a difference. There are more options than 100% change and doing nothing.

"Doing Something" isn't the best choice. Often times people make very bad decisions when they do that, because we MUST do SOMETHING! It tends to be emotional and not rational. It might feel good, but what good is it actually doing?

Where are the nuke plants? Is WA pushing for permits? Where will all this soon to be banned energy production be coming from? Unless there are concrete plans to make up for the lost production, it's just politics.

 

[SpaceBus]

"Doing Something" isn't the best choice. Often times people make very bad decisions when they do that, because we MUST do SOMETHING! It tends to be emotional and not rational. It might feel good, but what good is it actually doing?

Where are the nuke plants? Is WA pushing for permits? Where will all this soon to be banned energy production be coming from? Unless there are concrete plans to make up for the lost production, it's just politics.

Are you really suggesting that doing nothing to reduce pollution is the right choice? Please explain your rationale if so. I'm not sure I understand what your point is. Are you just bashing electric vehicles and alternative energy? Did you post messages on this thread to start a fight?

 

[CaptSpiff]

Are you really suggesting that doing nothing to reduce pollution is the right choice? Please explain your rationale if so. I'm not sure I understand what your point is. Are you just bashing electric vehicles and alternative energy? Did you post messages on this thread to start a fight?

I hear him saying "stop decommissioning the hydro-dams and build more nuc plants as part of a smart green energy policy". That will leave more options of shutting down the real polluters. Unlike Germany which rushed to shutter its' Nuc plants and is now struggling to shutter its coal plants.

Or maybe that's what I want to hear. ;-)

 

[begreen]

Just because govt mandates something, doesn't mean it'll happen. WA is also ripping dams out like there's no tomorrow. How much renewable power is being lost? How many nuke plants are being built right now?

I'm all for emission free transportation, but to make it possible we need to get serious about alternatives not just mandating it.

WA state took out one 100yr old, 2 dam system on one river. Not exactly a landslide rush. This was out on the Olympic Peninsula. The 2 dams were very remote and didn't generate that much power. Both dams output combined only provided 38% of the power required for the paper mill in Pt. Angeles. Better sources had replaced them. The ecological benefits have incredible and ongoing. Nukes are a touchy subject in this state due to one of the biggest nuclear boondoggles in history, that we are still paying off. Touchy subject, but I am in favor of fast-tracking modern PBR and HTGR solutions. Point being, it's another emissions free option.

 

[wilsoncm1]

WA state took out one 100yr old, 2 dam system on one river. Not exactly a landslide rush. This was out on the Olympic Peninsula. They were remote and didn't generate that much power. Both dams output combined only provided 38% of the power required for the paper mill in Pt. Angeles. Better sources had replaced them. The ecological benefits have incredible and ongoing.

My apologies. I am currently dealing with America Rivers now due to work and they don't operate in good faith. I took their numbers at face value. I should have known better.

Nukes are a touchy subject in this state due to one of the biggest nuclear boondoggles in history, that we are still paying off. Touchy subject, but I am in favor of fast-tracking modern PBR and HTGR solutions. Point being, it's another emissions free option.

Those are both nuclear options. It would behoove us as a nation to get these technologies up and running BEFORE we take mature ones offline. There will be a market reaction and it will hurt consumers in huge ways.
All this talk of banning fossil fuel energy without these others in place is nothing more than politics. It's dangerous.

 

[Ashful]

I’ve always seen a large US fleet of electric vehicles as the missing puzzle piece in us really getting more heavily into renewable and independent energy. Let’s face it, nukes and hydro share a common problem, no throttle. The plan in the 1950’s - 1970’s was to build nukes up to base load, and then throttle up to the daytime peaks with coal and other fossils.

But with converting 60% - 80% of the 250+ million vehicles on American roads over to electric, we have one heck of a battery bank, there. It’s a market ripe for companies to sell management rights to utilities, such that they can manage the overnight (charging) load, and optimize their base-load performers (nukes and hydro) to that load. It’s a win-win.

* Full disclosure, nukes can be throttled, but not on any time scale acceptable for managing day/night transitions. Think 3-day time constants.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Like them or not Nuke plants are emission free unless they malfunction. Even when the sun dont shine ,and the wind dont blow. The science has come a long way since those operating now, were built but people are gun shy over the few accidents in the past. In a study of deaths by fuel source Nukes came out best and coal came out worst. https://www.newscientist.com/articl...il-fuels-are-far-deadlier-than-nuclear-power/

 

[mellow]

Well they better hurry up and get batteries up to speed running on algae.

 

[begreen]

"Doing Something" isn't the best choice. Often times people make very bad decisions when they do that, because we MUST do SOMETHING! It tends to be emotional and not rational. It might feel good, but what good is it actually doing?

Where are the nuke plants? Is WA pushing for permits? Where will all this soon to be banned energy production be coming from? Unless there are concrete plans to make up for the lost production, it's just politics.

Off on a tangent here. It was stated - "Unless they're solar powered, emissions are produced to provide that transportation." That is factually incorrect. There are other sources of emissions-free power and they were noted. What works best will be regional solutions. In WA state it's quite unlikely that the new mandate will put PSE or Avista out of business. This is not a surprise to them. They started the RFP process last year for renewable resources. PSE is now reviewing some 97 proposals. They also note that another emissions-free source of power is conservation. PSE estimates energy efficiency programs saving about a 500MW over the next 20yrs.

Another source emissions-free power is tidal. Being far north our tidal swing is large. France, S. Korea and Scotland have large tidal power generation systems.

 

[semipro]

Like them or not Nuke plants are emission free unless they malfunction.

Only if you don't consider heat an emission.
Nukes using nearby water bodies for cooling have in some cases driven temps up to where dissolved oxygen levels aren't sufficient to sustain all marine life resulting in fish kills.
Those large air plumes emitted by cooling towers are warming the atmosphere too.

 

[begreen]

Only if you don't consider heat an emission.

That's an important concern. Seems like a good opportunity for cogeneration applications where heat is needed for industrial or perhaps agricultural uses.

 

[SpaceBus]

I used to live an hour east of a nuclear plant cooled by a man made lake. I'm no meteorologist, but it seemed to me like the storms were stronger when the steam from the plant mixed with the incoming thunderstorms.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

That's an important concern. Seems like a good opportunity for cogeneration applications where heat is needed for industrial or perhaps agricultural uses.

I wonder how many homes could be heated with the waste heat from nuke plants. Should be greenhouses around the plants,at least in fall winter and spring could draw off heat. They are doing that locally with the culm burning electric plants.

 

[brenndatomu]

The road to emissions-free transportation is going to be driven with battery-electric vehicles,

Whatever. It may be a small piece of the puzzle, but not a large piece anytime soon.
The emissions are just moved from the trucks tailpipe, to the battery factory, the power plant, and the hazardous waste dump once the battery's are junk...and then there is the whole issue of "the grid" already being at full capacity, sometimes overloaded in the summertime...oooh yeeeaaaah, sounds like yet another great idea brought to us by the united tree huggers and lemmings association!

 

[Ashful]

Whatever. It may be a small piece of the puzzle, but not a large piece anytime soon.
The emissions are just moved from the trucks tailpipe, to the battery factory, the power plant, and the hazardous waste dump once the battery's are junk...and then there is the whole issue of "the grid" already being at full capacity, sometimes overloaded in the summertime...oooh yeeeaaaah, sounds like yet another great idea brought to us by the united tree huggers and lemmings association!

As the self-elected forum spokesperson for the “not a tree hugger” contingent of this forum, you are way off base, here. Power plants generate many times the energy per emissions of an ICE, even accounting for all transmission losses. Summer peak demand is a non-issue, it occurs in the afternoon, and peak charging is overnight.

... and who is dumping expensive EV batteries in the garbage? Don’t you want that core charge back?