Dealer Recommending cleaning from top down only... why?

[NoobTube]

OK so Just curious. Why would my dealer/installer recommend only cleaning from the top down?

My insert has a Blockoff plate because of a vermiculite poured insulation in the chimney. I can't see a reason why he would recommend only top down cleaning? Any thoughts?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

OK so Just curious. Why would my dealer/installer recommend only cleaning from the top down?

My insert has a Blockoff plate because of a vermiculite poured insulation in the chimney. I can't see a reason why he would recommend only top down cleaning? Any thoughts?

Because your dealer makes good profit off chimney cleaning and he's guessing you have no desire to get on the roof yourself? Also, it's pretty hard to inspect the top of the chimney unless you have a boroscope or get up there and look. That's not so much a reason to clean it from the top as it is to get up there anyway.

 

[NoobTube]

My dealer works with another service company, so I can see how he might get some form of a kickback every job he recommends. Also the service guys have had to come out 4 times on their dollar because of issues with the install. Nice people and a nice dealer, but just wanted to make sure it wasn't some other reason than this. I like using the sooteater and after inspecting the flue with a boroscope last time, saw it did a great job all the way till where I ran out of connecting rods. I'm buying more so I can reach the top for the next cleaning.

Bare in mind, if I hadn't run out and had to go on the roof in the first place, I wouldnt have notice that the chimney cap was not correctly affixed to the clay flue and would likely have gotten water intrusion. So its good to double check and visually inspect anyway.

 

[Hogwildz]

The dealer may just not be very knowledgeable,(imagine that), and may be confusing the thought of having to pull the unit, vs brushing in place. Hard to believe, but he may also be unaware of products that make for cleaning from below an option. Did you ask him why?

You have to realize, while many dealer know great loads of info, there are those that just sell stoves, and have no interest in how they are maintained.

 

[NoobTube]

I think he's actually quite knowledgeable and an honest guy to boot. I didn't ask him why, and to be fair, he has been exceptional whenever I had a question or had a service related issue. I would still highly recommend him. Additionally, the installers he used (same as the service people) were extremely friendly, clean, and were good about explaining everything to me. I do wish that in the beginning we either went with a pre-insulated liner over the single wall and the vermiculite. That would have saved the extra service calls when the vermiculite leaked past the barrier they installed. But hey, that was their decision, and they stood by it and cleaned and serviced the issue each time at their expense.

 

[begreen]

If this is your first year with the stove then it wouldn't hurt for your dealer or a certified sweep to do the job top down. That puts eyes up top. Most accumulation is going to be there. By having a pro do this the first time and discussing what the sweep finds, you will have some good data on how your burning technique and wood quality is doing. If the first sweep or two come out with dry fluffy powder, then bottom up may be fine as long as the wood burned stays fully seasoned. If it's gunky up top, then there may need to be some adjustment in burning procedure.

 

[NoobTube]

Great Point Begreen... Because I burned last year with a mix of wood (first year) I did end up with a bit of Creosote build up up there. Not a huge amount. I did visually inspect it and ended up with a little over a cup of creosote from burning roughly 2 cords of wood. I think the reason why there was more than expected was because we had roughly 3 bags worth of vermiculite leak out behind the stove before they put a block-off plate in, leaving a few feet up top un-insulated on the flue. This year my wood supply is seasoned much better and I've been able to change some of my burning habits, and they completely topped up the insulation to the cap.

 

[begreen]

I think the reason why there was more than expected was because we had roughly 3 bags worth of vermiculite leak out behind the stove before they put a block-off plate in, leaving a few feet up top un-insulated on the flue.

That makes me seriously question the knowledge of this installer. You may be a beginning burner, but it sounds like you are doing well.

 

[NoobTube]

I'll take your reply as a compliment. I try to learn as much as I can from you all. I wish I could have the kind of wood supplies you all have, but alas, being in a sub-division with limited wooded areas has hindered me just a little bit.

I think the installers had the right idea, wrong execution. I asked them at first about putting in a blockoff plate and they said, it wouldnt be needed. After the first leak, I said, well I think a block off plate would have stopped this. He told me, Yeah, we should have done that in the first place, but it would have taken more time to fabricate one.

So yeah, I would be willing to bet that the next time they do an install with a poured vermiculite insulation, they will take the time to do a blockoff plate instead of stuffing roxul in the opening. It would have saved them 3 different visits to correct the issue.

 

[jetsam]

It could be that he always gives that advice because he installs caps with screens, and that's where the first problems will come from when creosote starts accumulating. A bottom-up sweep may not lead to you even seeing the problem.

 

[Hogwildz]

Your burning habits and experimentation will improve even more over the next few seasons. You may find you burn less wood with the same heat. As time goes by, you'll become more comfortable all around, and more patient. I'm not a huge fan of vermiculite, but a big proponent of block off plates, as you can see why. They are a plus in any install.

 

[webby3650]

The fact that the installer chose to use poured in vermiculite with an insert rather than an insulation wrapped liner has me confused. That’s an uncommon approach for an insert. Stuck in his ways maybe? Trying to be cheap? It’s a huge mess like you found out, now and in the future.

 

[bholler]

The fact that the installer chose to use poured in vermiculite with an insert rather than an insulation wrapped liner has me confused. That’s an uncommon approach for an insert. Stuck in his ways maybe? Trying to be cheap? It’s a huge mess like you found out, now and in the future.

It is not cheaper but you are right we almost never pour an insert

 

[webby3650]

It is not cheaper but you are right we almost never pour an insert

Really? I assumed bags of vermiculite would be pretty cheap.

 

[bholler]

Really? I assumed bags of vermiculite would be pretty cheap.

You can't use bags of vermiculite it needs to be an approved mix. It has cement and other additives to keep it from settling like plain old vermiculite will.

 

[webby3650]

You can't use bags of vermiculite it needs to be an approved mix. It has cement and other additives to keep it from settling like plain old vermiculite will.

I know that. The OP said it is vermiculite though. I have seen some old school installs that were simply vermiculite poured in. Very well could be what he has. 3 bags poured out, definitely wasn’t mixed correctly if it wasn’t just vermiculite.

 

[webby3650]

Or they didn’t bother to block the throat much at all.

 

[branchburner]

Sounds like vermiculite was poured loose/dry. Which means the installer wasn't following code?

While that is an inexpensive way to insulate, it could also be highly profitable, depending on what the fellow charges for an "insulated liner."