Decking options

[begreen]

We need to get started on our porch stairs. Because of the raised house height, we are going to come down 6 steps onto a small 6 x 8 deck, then exit with two side steps off of the deck. The top steps will be wide (almost 8 ft wide).

This is on the north side of the house, so it will slime up in the rainy season. The problem was so bad with the old steps that the last time I painted them I added a little sand to the paint. Otherwise we couldn't use them safely when they were wet, which was most of the winter.

This is an old craftsman style house. We'll be running bevel sided wing walls along the steps. We don't want the California redwood porch look, nor exposed pressure treated lumber. I've thought of wrapping the 4x4 PT posts in cedar and maybe using that for the risers. What are our wood options for stair tread? What would you suggest for the deck?

 

[MrGriz]

I would go cedar all the way. I just re-built an old deck off of the dining room last year, which is about 6 1/2 feet above the patio. I used pressure treated for the framework and cedar for the decking, stairs and railings. I am going to cover the outside of the joists on each side and the front with cedar siding to complete the look. I opted to leave the posts pressure treated and not wrap them in cedar.

We looked at a number of different manufacturers of the "fake deck" and just couldn't find one that I liked as well as the look of the natural cedar. That being said, this deck is only 9' x 10' so it's not much to maintain. If we were doing a much larger deck, I would have "fell in love" with one of the maintenance free options.

Another popular option for decks is Ipe, or Iron Wood. The stuff is hard as nails and is supposed to withstand the elements very well. It also has a rich look, almost like installing a hardwood floor outdoors.

 

[keyman512us]

BeGreen...For Decking/stair treads???

I would go with the next generation Trex (don't know exactly WTH they call it these days) but it now comes in other colors than dark battleship Guilford grey...

They have colors that look like oak or redwood, and seeing as it could be considered plastic (like azac) it will last a good long time in the climate, it is somewhat textured to avoid being slippery in the wet weather. I guess in your area...that is a wise thing to take into consideration.

 

[begreen]

Ipe has been recommended to us by a friend. He did a deck with it and it came out very nice. Pricey stuff and only available in certain sizes. The means the stair treds would need to be 2 piece instead of a solid plank. Will cedar be hard enough for stair treds? We have a lot available in the NW, so it's a much easier wood to obtain.

 

[nshif]

BG
Ive got about 1000 sq' of deck and 2 stairways, one full height and one 5 steps. We dont get as much rain as you do but a significant amount and probably more snow and ice. I used a Trex knock off mostly for the maintainence value and its just as slippery as real wood. I just keep a bag of rock salt handy and coat the stairs as needed. I fiqured the composit stuff would hold up to the salt better than real wood. another option is the "sandpaper like" tape strips you can put on the treads but its not that attractive.

 

[MrGriz]

Cedar should work just fine for stair treads. You will actually be able to span a larger gap with cedar than with the composite decking. The same is true for the decking itself; composite will require joists to be closer on center than cedar, which will require closer spacing than Ipe.

When I did my stairs, I put a third stringer in the center and only span approximately 16" - 18" with the stair tread (I tend to overbuild rather than cut it close). With that set up, the treads don't move a bit when you walk up and down the stairs.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the advice. I checked out trex with a couple local owners. They both say it's slippery as heck after a couple years. That wasn't from ice, but from slime. And I don't think it would look as visually correct on this old house.

I'll probably end up using cedar, though I just heard about Brazilian redwood (Massaranduba) today, that is supposed to be quite nice, ages in a year to silver and not as pricey as Ipe.
(broken link removed to http://www.ocfp.com/Downloads/BrazRdwd.pdf)

Griz, you'll get a kick out of this. The old stairs (that probably were 30-40 yrs old when I took them out) had just one central stringer for a 92" span. Funny thing is they never felt too springy. The carpenter said that's because a lot of the support comes from it resting on the riser of the next step. For the stairs he's recommending 5/4 treads, with stringers on 24" centers.

 

[nshif]

Griz
my comp manuf only called for joists 16" oc and I think Trex is thye same ( useing 5/4 decking )

 

[elkimmeg]

First of all a single stringer in the middle of 4' steps does not cut it the spacing is too wide I use 4 stringers Even in a 3' wide set of steps that pushing the spands

What I used is the composite product called portico has groves in the side for stainless steel clops no surface nails or ugly mushroons screw divits nice clean apprarance cost a little more takes more time but looks fantastic. I have also used the composit railing system but tomorrow I using the PVC vinyl again not cheap but never checks cracks or warps.

Wood cedar is too soft for stair treads I know some use it I use mahogany nailed with 10D ring stainless steel nails.


Bear in mind the new CCa presure treated wood eats metals All joist hangers have to be double or triple plated to reduce the chemical reactions All frooring fastening has to be watched stainless steel or cermanic coated deck screws prefered if not common galvanized nalis will last about 2 years..

Believe it or not common joist hangers and galv nails were used a year or two back and decks colapsed the cause the hangers rusted out as did the nails Even bolts chould be coated or double dipped. I think things should be done right paid for once. I thought one should get some background info before attempting a deck or having one built. If you doubt me atleast do some research. Composit flooring should no be an issue at 16" on center joist then again its not the flooring that governs joist spands its the codes I know of no code tha allows larger than 16" oc in decks decks are designed for a higher load design than common interior living space

 

[Gooserider]

I may have no sense of aesthetics, but if I were building a set of steps for a wet and slimy environment I'd be wanting to get away from wood, and probably from the fake woods as well. I'd possibly be looking at something like aluminum diamond plate or expanded metal as something that had serious built in skid proofing and drainage.

If I was going to go with wood, I'd look at trying to do a laminated grid type design with lots of thin planks on edge, with narrow spaces separating them - again the idea being something with inherent skid proofing - although it might be difficult to maintain, so you'd need either a very high durability wood or an ultra long lasting finish.

(Fortunately I don't need to worry about such things, at least not this year...)

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

No worry Elk, we will be going with 24" apart stringers. I was just surprised when I took down the old ones that there was only one central stringer. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll look into portico, but I haven't seen a synthetic I like so far. Your advice is good and I've decided to put this off until October so that I can research it some more and speak to more homeowners of synthetics and wood decks. As to cedar, if clear grained old growth, it's not bad. That's what our old steps were made of and lasted a generation.

Goose, lol, diamond plate ain't gonna happen. I am looking into massaranduba. Just about as hard and heavy as Ipe but about 30% less. Very rot and insect resistant.

Edit: found the portico, but it's not sold on the west coast.

 

[Jags]

BG - watch out for the "maint. free" decking. It ain't maint. free. True, it doesn't need to be stained or painted, but my trex deck needs a yearly spray down with a water bleach mixture. I have about 1000sqft of the stuff, and if I were going to rebuild my deck, it wouldn't be with that. Keep in mind also that the trex is NOT used for any structural support. My deck is quite solid, but I used all 2x4 for the decking on 16" centers. For stairs, I would NOT use the 5/4 board, but I'm kind of a big boy (kinda look like one of the guys that stare at the ball hiker for a living) and I like things solid.

 

[MrGriz]

Griz, you'll get a kick out of this. The old stairs (that probably were 30-40 yrs old when I took them out) had just one central stringer for a 92" span. Funny thing is they never felt too springy. The carpenter said that's because a lot of the support comes from it resting on the riser of the next step. For the stairs he's recommending 5/4 treads, with stringers on 24" centers.

WOW... I can't believe that those held up over time as well as they did. I definitely think your carpeter is on the right track for the new ones.

 

[TedNH]

Trex gets REAL hot in the sun.
Bare feet beware.

 

[jqgs214]

Trex has the habit of growing a mold/slime, the other composites in my experience are much better. Cant remember that name of the last one we used here at the marina (wet and slimy conditions) but we coated the treads with a two part epoxy/sand nonskid. worked well and has held up for 5 years now.