Defiant Encore - cost to fix vs. keep looking

[bailey020408]

I've been searching a while for a good used wood stove at the right price, and today came across a Defiant Encore originally purchased in Feb. of '93 which hasn't been used for the past 4 - 5 years. This one is brown enamel and looks nice, but there are a few known issues. First, the catalytic converter needs to be replaced, and they also said something was warped but they couldn't remember what - they think it was the damper. The best that they can remember the local dealer told them it would be around $500 to get everything fixed, but they decided to just get a new stove and stuck this one in their shop. They are offering to sell it for $300 as is, which they said is probably what it would scrap for. What would be the worst case scenario on this if it had to be totally rebuilt? Given that new enamel ones in this area are around $2400, would this be worth fixing? I would not be doing the work myself but would probably take it to the VC dealer to make sure it was done correctly and everything would be safe.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Best to ask the dealer about that. It's hard to determine their labor charges, but I would expect it to take about 4-5 hrs. If they charge $500 for parts and $400 for labor you would be in it for $900. My concern would be whether it will cost this sum again in 4-5 years and whether parts will be available then.

 

[bailey020408]

If it was fixed properly and fired correctly, etc., why would you think it might cost the same in 4 - 5 years? Isn't the catalytic converter generally the only thing that typically "wears out"?

 

[begreen]

For a 15 year old stove, unfortunately no. But without knowing what parts are going into the rebuild I'm just speculating. For example the refractory assembly might be ok now, but not so good in a few years.

This is a decent stove, so if the rebuild is done well with an eye out for future issues, then it may be ok. It's hard to comment without knowing exactly what the dealer wants to replace. The other issue is the changing of VC ownership. How well VC survives the new company is not well known at this point. You asked for the worse case scenario, it could be better or worse. For VC it's hard to say right now.

 

[kwburn]

That is really tough to say like the others said.
I'll say this though...
I love my Defiant Encore but until I had every gasket sealed perfectly (including the damper), i could not get a perfectly controlled burn. The temp would run away from me.
So my concern would be getting everything repaired and done right.

 

[downeast]

For a 15 year old stove, unfortunately no. But without knowing what parts are going into the rebuild I'm just speculating. For example the refractory assembly might be ok now, but not so good in a few years.

This is a decent stove, so if the rebuild is done well with an eye out for future issues, then it may be ok. It's hard to comment without knowing exactly what the dealer wants to replace. The other issue is the changing of VC ownership. How well VC survives the new company is not well known at this point. You asked for the worse case scenario, it could be better or worse. For VC it's hard to say right now.

We've used three VC Encores since they were made. When operating right, it is a super stove for the 24/7 wood burner.
It is a complex, well and highly engineered product that needs maintenance and attention to burn correctly. Besides the viability of the company insuring parts and support, a used cast stove with many, many parts is not a good buy if you're serious about using it as a full time heating appliance. And, if you're depending on "experts" to repair and maintain it. The sale of the real Vermont Vermont Castings' stoves made after 1995, had deadly quality control problems out of the box.

If you are going to buy it some majors to look at:
1. The damper ass'y and mechanism.
2. Thermal air control parts. It's a PITA job replacing the cable.
3. Remove the rear plate ( newer Encores access from the firebox ) to check the refractory ass'y and the cat. The ass'y box is $$$ ( ~ $300 ), and also a PITA.
4. Warping and sealing of ALL the cast plates: top, sides, base, interior. Use a light to check for leaks.
5. Gaskets: simple but vital. Doors, vent, damper, ash pan, clear ceramic "glass".

Still interested ? A 2001 Encore heats one part of the place here...well. But we switched from another Encore to a much simpler, but less efficient non-cat Jotul Oslo for the other wing for 24/7 heating.

If you can swing it, think over the economy of a getting a new stove. The cost/year evens out over say a 10 year ownership taking support, warranty, maintenance costs, POM ( Piece of Mind ) into account with the $2000+ cost of a new stove. Plenty of good ( and not so expert ) advice here. Ask for real time references from your dealer for any stove: those who use the wood beast for heating for at least one season. Talk with users.

Oh yeah: got wood ?

 

[LMBN]

There is a Defiant Encore on EBAY right now, it has new parts (I called and spoke to the person) it is appro. 13 years old. Last year they put in a new Catalytic converter and replaced gaskets. Its at $970. right now...ends in a few days.

We were keeping an eye on it and decided (thanks to a little advice from the great people here) on ordering a new Jotul Oslo 500...instead...our first NEW stove! Can't wait for fall.
Thanks again everyone for so much helpful advice.

 

[Heat Miser]

Buy another stove. A stove that old could have been run very hard and you don't know what may be lurking beneath. It's just as likely you'll spend more in parts and labor as just buying a new stove. Throw in the fact that VC is having many problems right now and I think it's not worth the money. I think it is suspicious that they pulled out this stove and replaced it with another instead of just fixing it, no?

I had to rebuild my former VC Defiant after the refractory material cracked. The parts were under warranty (barely) and would have been expensive to replace. Now that VC is on the ropes, parts are going to be even harder to come by.

 

[bailey020408]

Thanks everyone for your input on this. I decided to pass on the Encore because of all of the unknowns. One of the other stoves I found was a Resolute Acclaim. Reading all of the posts I understand this stove can have problems, especially if you are a novice burner. I want to locate it in my fireplace, and the Acclaim is a good size for this. I don't mind that it doesn't have the catalytic converter. The stove I have found appears to be in perfect condition with hardly any use. It has the firebrick lining so I assume it's the newer model, and in looking at the inside it shows little use. I know people have had problems with VC, but I'm a fan since purchasing my first Defiant in the late 70's, and since then have also had an Encore At some point in the future I want to purchase a Defiant or Hearthstone to heat the entire house, but felt the Acclaim would be a good intermediate step to help with my heating bills, and I just can't keep throwing wood into the fireplace and see it wasted (although the fire is lovely!). Any words of wisdom? The stove is black enamel with a screen, almost perfect condition, for $750, and all of my firewood is 16" or less so it will fit into the smaller firebox. The current owners went to in-floor heating and decided to sell the stove, which they also bought used.

 

[Brian VT]

Check out the "refractory package" by looking behind the bottom grate and in the chimney outlet (open the damper).
Even better would be to remove the fireback to see the whole thing (bring a socket wrench 7/16" or 1/2"?).
These are fragile units made from a soft ceramic(?) blanket material and cost $230 to replace if it is falling apart.
I'm not trying to steer you away, just giving you info that I learned after I bought mine.

 

[bailey020408]

Thanks for the info. Overall though are you happy with the Resolute Acclaim?

 

[Brian VT]

I haven't even bought my chimney yet.
It was a good deal ($450) and it's in good shape except for a broken back grate and the hole I made in the top of the refractory package.
If I don't like it I should be able to sell it next year. I hope it works out, though. I think I'll like the top load.

 

[JPapiPE]

Never buy a 15 year old stove with problems for $300 , when brand new E.P.A. stoves can be had for $500..... Uncle Clarence is not in charge anymore ...he is dead. and the decision is yours... no more brutal spankings from that bastard...I could crush the life out of him with one hand...And,...sometimes I wish I had...