digital television, anybody using an antenna?

[Highbeam]

I currently get some ridiculous amount of non-premium channels through my cable service which is bundled with phone and internet. The price for the television portion is supposed to be 55$. We have determined that we don't need this. I am intrigued by the concept that the over-the-air signal will be (is) digital and supposed to be of excellent quality. I used the antenna web site to determine that I have all of the importanta and major channel's towers broadcasting from about the same direction and between 25 and 40 miles away. Lots of channels are available according to the conservative site.

So I looked into antennas. Medium or large directional antennas and there are some decent ones out there that claim to be able to receive/produce strong signals from UHF and VHF stations up to 60 miles away. These things cost like 55$ which is the same as one month's cable bill.

Has anyone given up cable for the digital over-the-air transmissions? Any thoughts?

 

[Dix]

What make are the antennas?

 

[Highbeam]

I like the winguard (SP) which seem to be a high quality unit formerly known as chromstar. There are others like terk and even RCA. These antennas seem to be the rage for the guys with HD telelvisions since the digital signal often carries very high quality and free HD programming to rural areas.

 

[fueldude]

We use an antenna with our HD Samsung because our local channels do not come through as HD and aren't scheduled to anytime soon on satellite.

It works excellent, picture is great, and we got a bunch of channels that I didn't know existed when it was analog.

Make sure that all your local channels are broadcasting in digital. One of our locals (CBS) isn't yet, so we have to switch to the analog tuner to view anything on it.

-Fueldude

 

[semipro]

Highbeam,
I've been using an antenna with a digital converter box for about 6 months now. It works pretty well. I have a large (7 foot long) yagi style antenna that I used previously for analog TV mounted in an attic space.

Check out www.antennaweb.org for some great info including which way to point the antenna once you tell it what stations you want and where you live.

Good luck.

 

[billb3]

I refuse to give Comcast the time of day, so I've had an antenna for 7 years.

For 60 miles from Buzzards Bay to Boston I gto a big long winegard with a preamp.
I've tried 3 HDTVs and all the receivers tended to go to no signal with a weak signal especially so in windy weather, in part becasue I'm not on top of a hill and I'm too close to trees and not above them.
Receivers in the TVs aren't all created equal, either. I've had better ones in VCRs.

Unplug the preamp and all the channels that the antenna are not pointed at completely disappear. I should have a rotor because stations come from several directions.
I tried one of those omni-directional antennas for campers and boats. Horrible on land, but better than rabbit ears.

I wanted to try the antenna inside the attic, to see just how bad it would perform when the roof was wet, but the darn thing was too long.

 

[mjbrown]

i bought the $84 kit at walmart a couple of weeks ago and hooked up the converter box.i now get 4 channel clear as a bell when before i was only getting one channel w/rabbit ears. screw cable, they can stay in the back of the class w/opec!

mike

 

[Highbeam]

Semipro: That's the site I used that opened my eyes to the fact that all of my important channels (the big three plus fox)are actually broadcast, for free, in high quality digital, often HD, at my house and I can pick them up with a 60$ antenna. The site goes as far as to recommend the size and type of antenna and you can then shop for it. The only trick is that many of the channels that are currently UHF (14-69) will move to VHF (2-13) once the transition occurs so we would be wise to select an antennae that is capable of both UHF and VHF or a 2-69 capable antennae. The internet age allows the buyer to check out reviews and shop price pretty well.

Also, getting one step larger (more powerful) an antennae than required at the site will always be a good investment. Like stoves, you seldom hear of folks having too much antenna. They just get ugly.

The antenna that has caught my eye is the wineguard GS2200 is a large 60 mile antennae that gets UHF and VHF and looks like a single fixed wing that is 48 inches long. It is aimed at the stations so is directional. It has a preamp built in. The wife is understandably unexcited about a large 168" wineguard antenna of the conventional array design nailed to the side of the house.

That site gives the azimuth for stations. So do you measure the azimuth angle from north CCW? Also note that you can have two directional antennas hooked together if you have two main directions that your stations come from.

 

[velvetfoot]

As I recall, that web site take topography into account, so it should tell you what kind of reception you can get.

When we moved into our house 3 years ago we found we couldn't get cable TV there.
We're really not into the premium channels, though I'm sure we could be, but trying to resist overpaying for mostly marginal entertainment.
Doing NetFlix.

We got a new digital TV shortly after we moved and found that we got fairly good digital reception with just rabbit ears.
It would need adjustment once in a while which was a pain, so I wound up getting an antenna from Radio Shack.
It is UHF and VHF (I think the Yagi is just UHF), because that web site said at the time the digital stations were both VHF and UHF.
Luckily, all the stations' digital antennas are located very close together.

I mounted it under the deck and wound up needing a signal amplifier, also from Radio Shack, probably because it goes into a splitter.
I figure I don't need any lightning protection, ground rods, etc with it under there, knock on wood.

Digital/HD TV is great, even over the air.
Additional channels, like local weather stations and other stuff like retro tv shows.

If you don't have a digital/HD TV, get one!

 

[Highbeam]

We don't have a digital/HD TV yet due to the PO of my house and all of the built in cabinets. The TV in my living room fits perfectly in this square cubby but it only 27 inches or so. See pic. Putting in the desired 50 inch widescreen would hurt the mojo of that room.

Before the insulation was blown into my attic, I went and installed a structured media center and ran cat5e phone lines and RG-6 coaxial to each TV location, phone location, computer location, and an extra pair to the garage. The SMC setup will allow a pretty easy "upgrade" from cable to over-the-air I hope.

I am actually finding cheaper, like 45$, medium directional antennas that have all of the crazy bars. Yes, they're ten feet long and could contact aliens but they're only 50$, right? I'll likely end up amplifying a "medium" directional antenna.

 

[velvetfoot]

Check out on that website though where the antenna has to be aimed.
If more than one place, you may need more than one antenna!

 

[John_M]

Highbeam, about 1.5 years ago I did exactly what you are considering doing now. I said goodbye to DirectTV and Dishnetwork and installed my own Off The Air antenna. My nearest stations are in Utica about 45 miles away (due north) and about 75 miles away (due east), I have the Albany and Schenectady stations. I installed the largest Winegard antenna (recieves VHF, UHF and FM signals) with a Winegard preamplifier at the antenna and an amplifier just before the distribution panel in my basement. Also installed an antenna rotor to pick up the different stations.

Initially, I could pickup only the Utica stations with any clarity and they were pretty watchable. When the weather was cooperating I could pick up a few of the Albany and Schenectady stations that were barely watchable on my HD Samsung TV. I could count on receiving only 1 or 2 stations with any regularity. My Samsung does not have a digital tuner so I purchased an "Insignia" brand of digital/analog converter box at Best Buy. I used the government's $40 coupon to purchase the $60 converter box. What a difference the D/A converter box makes! I now receive ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and PBS with regularity and perfect clarity. The converter box "cleans up" the analog signal so it looks as good as or better than a high definition digital signal (some high definition pictures show too much detail and so are not that attractive).

One of the real benefits of the D/A converter box is that if it receives any decent analog or digital signal it converts that signal into a perfect picture. If the signal is too weak I receive no picture. The D/A converter box does not allow fuzzy pictures. It sends either a great signal or no signal at all to your tv. I have said "goodbye" forever to Cable TV, Direct TV and DishNetwork. I save about $65 per month and get all the programming I'll ever need (football and PBS). I have not missed cable or satellite TV for even a nano-second. Installing the box is too simple to imagine.

I must add that the $40 coupon offer from the FCC is one of the most beneficial programs ever handed out to the taxpayer. It is well advertised, very informative and saves us a couple of dollars. I wish I could say the same for other gov't programs.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[semipro]

Highbeam,
You measure the azimuth using a compass so its clockwise. The number the website gave me was right on. You can use a rotor to aim at mulitple antenna sites. My local PBS station has 3 channels alone but seems to have a slightly different location for their tower. They are all on the same mountaintop though.

Another advantage yet unmentioned is the program guide feature and program information that the receivers will give you access to. I have the Insignia converter also and have had pretty good luck wth it.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[velvetfoot]

I have a recommendation for over the air receiver:
Don't get one that has 'TV Guide' on it.
I have it on my Sony DVR and Toshiba HD TV, both about 3-4 years old (I don't even know if they make it anymore.)
It depends on a signal from a TV station, in my area a publlic television station.
Sometimes something goes off line and it's not broadcast.
The DVR especially depends on TV Guide for programming recording and the time.
You can't adjust the time independently!

Anyway, don't get a TV Guide unit for over the air.

PS: Other than that the DVR is great! It records in HD including closed captioning.

 

[Valhalla]

The antenna is the same for current over the air analog TV and new HD signals. Don't change it unless signal strength improvement is needed.

 

[mayhem]

Some friends of ours are antenna people, they've had the same antenna on the roof of their house for the last 20 years and have always had good reception. Its a standard rooftop analog tv antenna with a motorized rotator that broke down probably a decade ago. They recently got their set top D-A converter box and we were all astounded at the channels they pull in now...probably picking a good 50-60 channels (roughly triple what they used to get), most of which they never even heard of before (and virtually all of them are in english too). They didn't lose a single old channel and now they get all this other stuff too.

 

[firefighterjake]

I still have DirecTV . . . but use my Radio Shack antenna (I can't remember the brand since I bought it years ago) to get the local stations and some not-so-local stations (thanks to a high roof top position, luck in living where I do on the edge of two different broadcasting areas and a rotator.)

Honestly, the broadcast TV looks so good that I sometimes hate to go to my regular, ol' digital satellite TV signal since it pales in comparison (I could go with the HD package and might do so eventually . . . but I hate to pay premium prices).

Folks that don't have the HD signal yet or a HDTV are truly missing out on an excellent viewing experience . . . shoot I actually started watching football just because I was blown away by the clarity of the picture and the sound.

The good news is that it seems that most of the bugs have been worked out . . . with my first HDTV (a wicked heavy cathode ray tube Samsung that was only 32 inches but it weighed a ton . . . well maybe not a true ton . . . but it was heavy for the size) one of the local stations had issues with the switching gear -- running from the HD program to local programming or ads often caused the TV to shut itself off and then on again for some unknown reason . . . also occasionally I would be watching a game and you could hear the ambiant sound from the crowds, but no commentators and on top of all that since most stations were pretty new to the HD scene they were not running the HD signal at full power which meant some stations did not come in as clear as they do now.

 

[Highbeam]

I found a feature on the antennaweb site that actually displayed the direction of the major clusters of channels with a map as backgraound so I was able to gather that the azimuth is measured clockwise. That site feature allowed me to determine that I will have an excellent "view" of the appropriate towers. No trees or hills, best case really. The two clusters of desirable channels are 32 degrees apart which is within the acceptable tolerance of the typical directional antenna.

I checked out the home depot site and found an amplified, large rated but not large in size(blue rated), directional antenna that doesn't look like the old fashioned bar/net antenna. Typical large antennas of the bar/net style are like 168" long! which wouldn't set well with the womenfolk. Anyway, the GE antenna that I found got mostly great reviews and includes mounting gear and the amp. Also is only like 74$.

I also put in for the rebate for the converter box but I doubt I will get one.

So what's this about a TV guide? I have this with my cable television service and have grown to like it. Does the guide only show the channels which have good reception? Wow, that's better yet!

 

[granpajohn]

I attended a lecture by a broadcast TV engineer regarding this matter. A few items that seem to have come up:

- As you know, a UHF antenna is physically much smaller that VHF for the same gain. Yes, VHF was sneaked in late in the process, but it is not likely that your local station will return to VHF in the future. Depends where you are. Mostly Midwest stations may fall back to these frequencies. Could be worth checking into. I plan to replace with UHF only.

- If you have a DigTV which is more than a year old, you may benefit from buying the converter box and using analog. (I plan to.) He said the receivers were on the seventh revision, (now up to eighth I think), the earliest ones were almost completely useless.

- No cable company puts out a signal that is as good as the over the air digital. They degrade the signals because they just don't have the bandwidth to spare. In fact, like so many others, he couldn't say enough bad things about Comcast. (Fiber networks are not as bad, they say, but still do it.)

- BTW, the converter box rebate program didn't specifically come up, but he suggested that the whole gov't program has been tremendously screwed up by the usual suspects (lawyers and politicians). This is, of course, a long story.

Guess that's about all I can add at this point.

 

[velvetfoot]

I'm talking about a TV or DVR with the TV Guide logo on it, not a generic guide.
That's just my experience.

 

[Highbeam]

The reading I have done strongly suggested that after the transition date that many of the stations now forced to use UHF due to lack of available bandwidth in the VHF band will move into the VFH band once the analog broadcasts have abandoned their positions. Hey, I would love to use a UHF only antenna, they are way smaller for a given range but I don't want to have to buy another antenna when stations start switching around and I have found sufficient sources of combo UHF/VHF antennas.

This is great info folks. I was pretty ignorant about over-the-air broadcast a few weeks ago and am finding it fascinating.

 

[Valhalla]

Yes, many stations now have up to three programs running simultaneously on their new frequencies. It is very impressive.

Good for HD over the air. It is a viable alternative to cable or satellite.

 

[colebrookman]

Some friends of ours are antenna people, they've had the same antenna on the roof of their house for the last 20 years and have always had good reception. Its a standard rooftop analog tv antenna with a motorized rotator that broke down probably a decade ago. They recently got their set top D-A converter box and we were all astounded at the channels they pull in now...probably picking a good 50-60 channels (roughly triple what they used to get), most of which they never even heard of before (and virtually all of them are in english too). They didn't lose a single old channel and now they get all this other stuff too.

We had just the opposite experience; we could get PBS channel 57, no problem. Now that they have converted over we can no longer get their station yet channels 40 and 6 located on the same mountain top come in perfectly. We may get more channels as they come up to full power on the 17th, unless it's postponed.
Ed

 

[rowerwet]

I got a converter box for the TV at work when one local station switched to digital back in december. We went form 6 stations 3 in english, to 2 one spanish one english. I am now trying to find directions on how to make an outdoor antenna to put on the roof (3 storys up) according to the website given before, we should be able to get 30 stations, I would be happy with 5 or 6.

 

[webbie]

Martha had a brilliant idea that we could save on cable at out beach cottage.....
So we bought an antenna with hi gain and installed it..........we got one channel decent and 3 fuzzy.

We are not far from Providence, RI or even Boston........and I think if we put something on the roof we would do much better - because there are buildings in the way of the path north to those cities.