Disadvantage of new vapor outlet boxes when replacing them! #%€!!€$&@!!,

Don2222 Posted By Don2222, Aug 8, 2019 at 6:19 PM

  1. Don2222

    Don2222
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    8,421
    579
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Hello
    Having more electrical outlets is always good. Just plugging in a power strip works but is cumbersome. So when I saw the ac outlet with 2 USB outlets, that would be nice to have?
    Why take out a a good gfci outlet to put this one in? So I got a double gang box to add this one in.
    so why not remove the single gang new workbox and install a double gang old work box? I have done this before and just cut the nails with the Sawzall? Well this new workbox was a vapor box with the flange around it to keep out the draft!
    What draft is there in a new construction fully insulated 2x6 wall with reflectix foil?
    Anyway, I cut some of the flange off with the sawzall and pulled one of the nails out and pryed it off the stud then got it out of the wall bit still broke off too much of the wall to hold the new box ! Now what? My electrical buddy said battleship or Madison. I said not in the mood for playing games and don’t call me Madison! She said those are the fingers you need now to hold it in!
    Wow these are cool!
    Anyone else have these darn difficulties?
     

    Attached Files:

    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,604
    12,725
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Madison clips have been around for a long time. I have used them several times over the years. They are great for retrofits.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Don2222 likes this.
  3. Ashful

    Ashful
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 7, 2012
    14,542
    7,185
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Yeah, I’ve been using those for decades, and actually prefer them to old work boxes, most of the time.

    Every day I see chit like this, I thank myself for not buying a “new” house. I may have some unique problems and expenses, but overall, there is much less frustration with old homes.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Don2222 likes this.
  4. SpaceBus

    SpaceBus
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2018
    2,363
    1,051
    Loc:
    Downeast Maine
    This morning my wife and I were thinking back over years of house hunting and how hard we looked for an old house like yours. After the problems we've had in a modern (70's) house and the difficulty in repairing it, I'm so glad we don't have an even less standardized house.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Ashful likes this.
  5. Ashful

    Ashful
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 7, 2012
    14,542
    7,185
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Lol... it’s all in the perspective, I guess. I’ve owned everything from 1690’s to 2010’s, and have heavily renovated most of them, myself. Of all these houses, the two with the least issues and easiest to work on were the Victorian (1880’s) and the post-war (1950’s). Any pre-1800 masonry is messy and unstable, at least around here, due to a lack of cement (lime or Portland) in the bedding mortar. Material costs can also be sky-high, if you’re trying to do it right, 16/4 white oak for window frames or float glass don’t come cheap.

    Anything too recent (eg. less than 40 - 50 years old) seems to suffer from a confluence of materials that favor installation cost over repairability, and lazy craftsmanship. I know a lot of local houses built in the 1980’s and 1990’s that are simply vinyl over styrofoam, no sheathing... you could break into them with a utility knife and 60 seconds of time, without ever opening a door or window.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. SpaceBus

    SpaceBus
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2018
    2,363
    1,051
    Loc:
    Downeast Maine
    Wow, we have made our house into a bank vault compared to the really recent stuff. This house is a little different since it was the bleeding edge of house technology, for 1975... Still, it's going back together better than it came apart ;lol
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Ashful likes this.
  7. Don2222

    Don2222
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    8,421
    579
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    I grew up in a 3 story 1890 Victorian and updating and fixing is quite costly and very difficult! I saw the house recently and it has a new addition! I cannot imagine how much that costs!
    I purchased a 1960’s split and the ease and cost of updating is considerably less$$. I did ad an addition on the side and even though it was very expensive it must still have been easier and far less $$!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    SpaceBus likes this.
  8. SpaceBus

    SpaceBus
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2018
    2,363
    1,051
    Loc:
    Downeast Maine
    1960's houses are pretty nice. We looked at several, but we didn't like the areas they were in. Some folks we know went bankrupt trying to restore a Victorian here on the Maine coast.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,604
    12,725
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Old houses with knob and tube wiring and galvanized piping can be negative fun to upgrade. They may be built well, but cutting through and removing plaster lath to update is not fun. Adding outlets takes a lot of care when cutting into plaster lath.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Don2222

    Don2222
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    8,421
    579
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Yes and in our 1890’s house all the outlets were cut into the baseboard Moldings and the cellar had BX wiring with a fuse box. Not easy to add any more!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,604
    12,725
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    I forgot to mention how much fun sawing and auguring thru 150 yr old white oak beams is. They become like iron with age.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. Ashful

    Ashful
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 7, 2012
    14,542
    7,185
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    If you have plaster and lathe on your partition walls, your house is too new!

    Our original walls are planked, although they were studded out and covered in plaster and lathe in a massive 1820’s renovation. The place was already 80-90 years old, at that point, and probably looking a little behind the times.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,604
    12,725
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Lath and plaster was used to finish interior walls and ceilings from the early-18th until the early-to-mid-20th century.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. Ashful

    Ashful
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 7, 2012
    14,542
    7,185
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Globally, yes. But cost and local availability in the US was heavily varied in the 18th. The delivery fees were astronomical, when the only delivery services were powered by wind and ox.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. MTY

    MTY
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 9, 2019
    155
    100
    Loc:
    Idaho
    Currently rebuilding a 1953 house. There are rafters, floor joists and not much else left from the original house. Every wire, pipe, chimney, window, interior wall, and door is gone. There were no headers above the windows or doors.

    The exterior walls were reframed with 2X6 and sheeted with plywood. It was easier to reframe than rip lumber to the dims of the rough cut 2X4's. There is just enough left of the original house to make it a remodel rather than new construction.

    I doubt the total footage of wire exceeded 200'. The wire was attached to the framing with what appeared to be pieces of tin can cut into strips, placed over the wire and nailed into place with roofing nails.

    Insulation consisted of 1 inch of rock wool in the ceiling and Korean war era newspapers wadded around the door and window frames. Rough cut 2X6X20' knot free joists are pretty impressive. I ran two glulam beams under the floor to take the bounce out.

    The septic tank was poured onsite with one side of it serving as the foundation for the kitchen, and the drainfield consisted of a 4" pipe going to the creek. A permit for a new septic system was $1200 but the repair permit was only $350. I think that was the only place I saved money.
     

Share This Page