Disadvantage of new vapor outlet boxes when replacing them! #%€!!€$&@!!,

Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,500
Salem NH
Hello
Having more electrical outlets is always good. Just plugging in a power strip works but is cumbersome. So when I saw the ac outlet with 2 USB outlets, that would be nice to have?
Why take out a a good gfci outlet to put this one in? So I got a double gang box to add this one in.
so why not remove the single gang new workbox and install a double gang old work box? I have done this before and just cut the nails with the Sawzall? Well this new workbox was a vapor box with the flange around it to keep out the draft!
What draft is there in a new construction fully insulated 2x6 wall with reflectix foil?
Anyway, I cut some of the flange off with the sawzall and pulled one of the nails out and pryed it off the stud then got it out of the wall bit still broke off too much of the wall to hold the new box ! Now what? My electrical buddy said battleship or Madison. I said not in the mood for playing games and don’t call me Madison! She said those are the fingers you need now to hold it in!
Wow these are cool!
Anyone else have these darn difficulties?
 

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
80,712
South Puget Sound, WA
Madison clips have been around for a long time. I have used them several times over the years. They are great for retrofits.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,288
Philadelphia
Yeah, I’ve been using those for decades, and actually prefer them to old work boxes, most of the time.

Every day I see chit like this, I thank myself for not buying a “new” house. I may have some unique problems and expenses, but overall, there is much less frustration with old homes.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,440
Downeast Maine
Yeah, I’ve been using those for decades, and actually prefer them to old work boxes, most of the time.

Every day I see chit like this, I thank myself for not buying a “new” house. I may have some unique problems and expenses, but overall, there is much less frustration with old homes.
This morning my wife and I were thinking back over years of house hunting and how hard we looked for an old house like yours. After the problems we've had in a modern (70's) house and the difficulty in repairing it, I'm so glad we don't have an even less standardized house.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,288
Philadelphia
This morning my wife and I were thinking back over years of house hunting and how hard we looked for an old house like yours. After the problems we've had in a modern (70's) house and the difficulty in repairing it, I'm so glad we don't have an even less standardized house.
Lol... it’s all in the perspective, I guess. I’ve owned everything from 1690’s to 2010’s, and have heavily renovated most of them, myself. Of all these houses, the two with the least issues and easiest to work on were the Victorian (1880’s) and the post-war (1950’s). Any pre-1800 masonry is messy and unstable, at least around here, due to a lack of cement (lime or Portland) in the bedding mortar. Material costs can also be sky-high, if you’re trying to do it right, 16/4 white oak for window frames or float glass don’t come cheap.

Anything too recent (eg. less than 40 - 50 years old) seems to suffer from a confluence of materials that favor installation cost over repairability, and lazy craftsmanship. I know a lot of local houses built in the 1980’s and 1990’s that are simply vinyl over styrofoam, no sheathing... you could break into them with a utility knife and 60 seconds of time, without ever opening a door or window.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,440
Downeast Maine
Lol... it’s all in the perspective, I guess. I’ve owned everything from 1690’s to 2010’s, and have heavily renovated most of them, myself. Of all these houses, the two with the least issues and easiest to work on were the Victorian (1880’s) and the post-war (1950’s). Any pre-1800 masonry is messy and unstable, at least around here, due to a lack of cement (lime or Portland) in the bedding mortar. Material costs can also be sky-high, if you’re trying to do it right, 16/4 white oak for window frames or float glass don’t come cheap.

Anything too recent (eg. less than 40 - 50 years old) seems to suffer from a confluence of materials that favor installation cost over repairability, and lazy craftsmanship. I know a lot of local houses built in the 1980’s and 1990’s that are simply vinyl over styrofoam, no sheathing... you could break into them with a utility knife and 60 seconds of time, without ever opening a door or window.
Wow, we have made our house into a bank vault compared to the really recent stuff. This house is a little different since it was the bleeding edge of house technology, for 1975... Still, it's going back together better than it came apart ;lol
 
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Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,500
Salem NH
Lol... it’s all in the perspective, I guess. I’ve owned everything from 1690’s to 2010’s, and have heavily renovated most of them, myself. Of all these houses, the two with the least issues and easiest to work on were the Victorian (1880’s) and the post-war (1950’s). Any pre-1800 masonry is messy and unstable, at least around here, due to a lack of cement (lime or Portland) in the bedding mortar. Material costs can also be sky-high, if you’re trying to do it right, 16/4 white oak for window frames or float glass don’t come cheap.

Anything too recent (eg. less than 40 - 50 years old) seems to suffer from a confluence of materials that favor installation cost over repairability, and lazy craftsmanship. I know a lot of local houses built in the 1980’s and 1990’s that are simply vinyl over styrofoam, no sheathing... you could break into them with a utility knife and 60 seconds of time, without ever opening a door or window.
I grew up in a 3 story 1890 Victorian and updating and fixing is quite costly and very difficult! I saw the house recently and it has a new addition! I cannot imagine how much that costs!
I purchased a 1960’s split and the ease and cost of updating is considerably less$$. I did ad an addition on the side and even though it was very expensive it must still have been easier and far less $$!
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,440
Downeast Maine
I grew up in a 3 story 1890 Victorian and updating and fixing is quite costly and very difficult! I saw the house recently and it has a new addition! I cannot imagine how much that costs!
I purchased a 1960’s split and the ease and cost of updating is considerably less$$. I did ad an addition on the side and even though it was very expensive it must still have been easier and far less $$!
1960's houses are pretty nice. We looked at several, but we didn't like the areas they were in. Some folks we know went bankrupt trying to restore a Victorian here on the Maine coast.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
80,712
South Puget Sound, WA
Old houses with knob and tube wiring and galvanized piping can be negative fun to upgrade. They may be built well, but cutting through and removing plaster lath to update is not fun. Adding outlets takes a lot of care when cutting into plaster lath.
 

Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,500
Salem NH
Old houses with knob and tube wiring and galvanized piping can be negative fun to upgrade. They may be built well, but cutting through and removing plaster lath to update is not fun. Adding outlets takes a lot of care when cutting into plaster lath.
Yes and in our 1890’s house all the outlets were cut into the baseboard Moldings and the cellar had BX wiring with a fuse box. Not easy to add any more!!
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
80,712
South Puget Sound, WA
I forgot to mention how much fun sawing and auguring thru 150 yr old white oak beams is. They become like iron with age.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,288
Philadelphia
Old houses with knob and tube wiring and galvanized piping can be negative fun to upgrade. They may be built well, but cutting through and removing plaster lath to update is not fun. Adding outlets takes a lot of care when cutting into plaster lath.
If you have plaster and lathe on your partition walls, your house is too new! [emoji14]

Our original walls are planked, although they were studded out and covered in plaster and lathe in a massive 1820’s renovation. The place was already 80-90 years old, at that point, and probably looking a little behind the times.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
80,712
South Puget Sound, WA
Of all these houses, the two with the least issues and easiest to work on were the Victorian (1880’s)
Lath and plaster was used to finish interior walls and ceilings from the early-18th until the early-to-mid-20th century.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,288
Philadelphia
Lath and plaster was used to finish interior walls and ceilings from the early-18th until the early-to-mid-20th century.
Globally, yes. But cost and local availability in the US was heavily varied in the 18th. The delivery fees were astronomical, when the only delivery services were powered by wind and ox.
 

MTY

Member
Jan 9, 2019
247
Idaho
Currently rebuilding a 1953 house. There are rafters, floor joists and not much else left from the original house. Every wire, pipe, chimney, window, interior wall, and door is gone. There were no headers above the windows or doors.

The exterior walls were reframed with 2X6 and sheeted with plywood. It was easier to reframe than rip lumber to the dims of the rough cut 2X4's. There is just enough left of the original house to make it a remodel rather than new construction.

I doubt the total footage of wire exceeded 200'. The wire was attached to the framing with what appeared to be pieces of tin can cut into strips, placed over the wire and nailed into place with roofing nails.

Insulation consisted of 1 inch of rock wool in the ceiling and Korean war era newspapers wadded around the door and window frames. Rough cut 2X6X20' knot free joists are pretty impressive. I ran two glulam beams under the floor to take the bounce out.

The septic tank was poured onsite with one side of it serving as the foundation for the kitchen, and the drainfield consisted of a 4" pipe going to the creek. A permit for a new septic system was $1200 but the repair permit was only $350. I think that was the only place I saved money.