New Wood Furnace Install (Part 2)

[nomorecold]

Well its been awhile everyone. Winter is coming and its time to pick back up where I left off. (First topic here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-in-basement-of-early-1800’s-colonial.175056/ ) The short of it is I have a new Hotblast 1551E EPA wood furnace going into a unfinished, dirt floor, stone foundation basement with pretty low ceilings.

I took a chance before having to bust out a concrete slab and called the manufacturer about my clearance issues in the short basement. I told them what I had going on and they said I would be ok with my total ceiling height and top of door to ceiling height coming up short by 1-2 inches in this situation. The unfinished basement is around 36’ x 24’ with no walls with no insulation between it and the first floor. They said in this situation they would count the bottom of the first floor as the ceiling height, not the bottom of the two floor joists above the furnace. I already bought 1/2” durock to hang above on 1” ceramic spacers just to be on the safe side. I didn’t stop to think if I mount this to the spacers plus framing to hold it on the bottom of the floor joists, my durock heat shield will be around 9” closer to the furnace than the ceiling itself was before shielding. Most of it would be a 6”+ air gap though. Am I better off just not using the durock at all as long as things aren't getting hot? My clearance for total ceiling height is 75 5/8” when manual calls for 77” and top of door to ceiling 46 1/4” wanting 48”.

Next question I have is can a manual flue damper be installed in a 6” DVL length of stovepipe like you would normally on single wall? I have seen a video of someone putting a normal looking cast type in but it looked like they used a regular 6” kit and it was tight on the spring to turn it or something. Also have read on here talk about a few people using a 6” cast piece for the pipe with a 7” kits shaft? I have already bought DVL from stove adapter to ceiling box connection with a clean out tee and would hate to not use it all now!

I am also interested in hooking up a draft gauge (manometer?) permanently or with a quick way of installing/uninstalling. I believe my chimney is going to end up 35’ of 6” duraplus straight up, no offsets just a cap as far as restrictions after the DVL tee in the basement. I have a feeling I will need a damper on this now that I bought the pipe not planning for it. Any suggestions on what to get here for a draft gauge?

Last, what is a good burn gauge/stovepipe temp gauge for the 6” dvl? I have read a probe type but cant find information on a preferred brand or how to assemble them in the pipe for a fireproof seal.

Thanks everyone again for any help!

 

[brenndatomu]

It would be pretty easy to get some sheet metal (like old duct work) and bend up "wrapped heat shields" for the beams themselves...still using spacers.
Most people here use the Dwyer Mark II model 25 manometer...can get em for $25-30 on fleabay…doesn't need to be anything fancy to hook it up, just drill a 1/4" hole into the side of your pipe, bend up a piece of 1/4" copper tubing into a big S shape, stick one end into the hole in the pipe, adapt the other end to the hose that comes with the Dwyer.

 

[nomorecold]

Ok, I will probably go with Dwyer model you mentioned if its tried and true and does the job. Found them pretty quick, thank you. What part do you leave connected in the dvl or is this one ok for a permanent mount? Just use some furnace cement or something else around the copper S going in?

Funny what you mentioned for sheet metal. I was looking it over the other day, thinking about shielding at least the two floor joists above the furnace that are the low point from the ceiling. What happened to be nearby but old 6” round metal ductwork but I didn't even think of using the spacers with it. Maybe thats what I’ll do instead of the Durock dropped down so far.


(Edited)

 

[brenndatomu]

Round duct work turns into flat sheet metal when you pop the seam apart and fold it back out flat...might hafta walk on it a bit to work the memory out of it...but it will conform just fine if you bend it into a "beam shape" and screw it fast...

 

[brenndatomu]

Ok, I will probably go with Dwyer model you mentioned if its tried and true and does the job. Found them pretty quick, thank you.

Just make sure you get one that comes with the red gauge oil...that stuff is pricey to buy by itself...sometimes you see NOS ones for sale missing the oil

 

[brenndatomu]

ut I didn't even think of using the spacers with it

Yeah it doesn't really act as much of a heat shield without the air space behind it

 

[nomorecold]

Ok thanks for the tip on the red oil.

Yeah I hadn’t thought too much on the beam shields yet but know I will have to space 1” whatever gets used for shielding. Already bought a 10 pack of the ceramic spacers. Hopefully I dont need many more packs of those!

 

[brenndatomu]

I will have to space 1” whatever gets used for shielding. Already bought a 10 pack of the ceramic spacers. Hopefully I dont need many more packs of those!

I would think you could get by with using 4 per shield, 8 total
I think some people just cut 1 inch slices of EMT conduit to use for spacers too...

 

[nomorecold]

Thank you for all the help! If I need more spacers I might try the emt conduit. I figured people were doing something like this as its cheaper and more readily available. I just liked the idea of ceramic not passing heat through like metal does although im sure its a negligible amount of difference in this case.

Can anyone touch on the issue of adding a manual damper to 6” DVL pipe? My DVL pipe lengths in the basement are going to determine my ceiling support box mounting location and I really need to start getting things in place. (Parts are laying around and Im looking at 40-60 degree temps this week here and colder coming fast) I have a 6” appliance to dvl adapter off the back of the furnace to 6” length into the DVL clean out tee. Off the DVL tee vertical up to the support box I only have a 12” length going to connect to the ceiling support box DVL adapter which is about 3” I believe. My worry is if I have to add a damper and can’t put it into this 12” vertical length of DVL somehow then I will have to change to single wall stovepipe and tee then adapt back to DVL before the support box to keep CTC. The only piece of DVL I see with a damper is the appliance adapter like I already have with a damper instead of no damper. I have found where it says you cannot connect it between two DVL pieces just adapt. Why cant I find a piece that is just like a DVL length with a damper installed?

I believe I cannot just run a damper in a horizontal section of pipe directly attached to the furnaces outlet in place of the non damper one I have? I would love to be able to add one in the 12” vertical section before the ceiling box as I’m almost sure I will need it with 30-35’ of duraplus pipe straight up through the house from the DVL tee. I can see me getting everything hooked up, ready for and needing the heat, then getting nothing but too much draft/overfire conditions and probably burning through a lot of wood while trying to prevent the house from burning down! I figure if I put it in now I can leave it open if I don’t end up needing it but it will be there just incase.

Also, I was just ready to jump on a dwyer model 25 and it says it includes the fluid but doesn’t state the color. Is all the fluid for them red or is there different types/colors of fluid available?

Thanks again for all the help brenndatomu!

 

[brenndatomu]

I don't see why you can't put a damper in the horizontal run from the furnace...it would be better in the vertical I'd guess, but it sounds like it is going to be fairly short, so...
All the Dwyer model 25's I have seen come with red oil...other models can use other colors I believe. The color tells you the specific gravity of the oil I'm told.

 

[nomorecold]

Yes its going to be a real short run from furnace to chimney support box. A picture is worth a thousand words, so I am trying to link a pic for the first time on here. Hopefully it doesn’t come out way too big:



This is what I bought to go from furnace to chimney support box. In order from furnace outlet to duraplus chimney connection : DVL appliance adapter (This is the piece they make the same of but with a damper) 6” length, DVL tee, 12” length, DVL chimney adapter. As you can see, the length from the appliance adapters outside wall edge to center of tee is only about 13 5/8”. My ceiling box will be dropped down a few inches per instructions from closest beam surface instead of ceiling in a normal 1st floor install. I bought a 24” box in order to be able to pull this off and keep good CTC in the short basement.

Thank you for the clarification on the oils for the mano as well!

 

[nomorecold]

I just shoved everything sort of where it will be for a pic but heres the basement/furnace area with pipe very roughly in place. The furnace needs to be moved back a bit and ceiling support is just slid into its floor cutout but here is what I'm dealing with:

 

[nomorecold]

Oh and the 12/2 in the first pic directly above the furnace is being rerouted before the furnace is ran. It is just temporary power for a part of the house that is being renovated.

Man those 6x6 PT pieces under the original house beams (on the jack posts) are really coming back to bite me on this project. I didn’t foresee putting a wood burner in this area as I always planned to go “through the wall” until that fell through. I put the 6x6’s and posts in a couple years ago to replace the one log holding the 4 way intersection of original beams by the back corner of the wood furnace. I would hate to mess with them too much now!

 

[brenndatomu]

Looks like you have a few projects going on around there!
Nothing sticks out in those pics that raises any flags with me right now. Anybody else?

 

[Highbeam]

Does that “basement “ fill with water? Or do you have a paved path through the mud to the stove?

 

[nomorecold]

Haha, If your talking about the foundation needing to be patched up about everywhere, it doesn’t let water through nearly as much as you would think! Its on the list. I have already done about 20-25’ of outside and have the mortar to do the job just havent got there yet. I think I work more at home than at work sometimes. I took on a big project with this place for sure.

 

[nomorecold]

Just got the Dwyer manometer with fluid for under $28 with tax and shipping, new in box. Thanks again for the information!

 

[nomorecold]

Update! Well, I cut through my first roof yesterday from the attic space to make sure nothing was in the way between the two roofs and guess what? Just my luck, I’m directly under some “framing” put there circa late 1800’s by the looks.





My first thought by the feel and look of it was that’s probably not doing much and I planned to pull or cut it out and move it slightly. I pulled off the board at an angle in the second pic with no creaks/ill effects then realized the white board at an angle in the very right of the last pic is wedged on top of the board thats in my way and runs to “support” the ridge of the second roof. Im still thinking its not doing as much as it should be but I believe its been this way for 100+ years. That being said, I chose to leave it alone and jumped on a set of 30 degree offsets I found for a little under $250 shipped. I feel like everywhere I turn is more money spent, I just hope it pays off in the long run!

Also picked up my custom made hot air plenum yesterday for $60. The plan is to run the wood furnace in series with my fuel oil furnace hooking from ducting on ceiling behind the furnace to its cold air box.



If nobody sees a problem with the damper being horizontal, directly off the back of the furnace then I will probably buy the same adapter I have except with damper just to have it on hand in case.

Hopefully today I will get the furnace all the way assembled, moved to where its going to set, and the square ceiling support box and all the DVL in place! Hoping to make more than a few inches of clearance between the metal jack post on the left front corner of the furnace as well although I'm not sure how yet. I think its going to end up only like 6” away if I'm lucky. Shielding it or using a thick (strong) piece of square tubing between the top of the jack post and the 6x6 overhead for an air gap has came to mind if need be.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[brenndatomu]

I'd just relocate and re-enforce what's there and go straight up with the chimney as planned...maybe consult a framer if you need to, but I wouldn't do more offsets unless absolutely necessary. My 2 ¢

 

[nomorecold]

Going straight up was already going to be very close if not less than the 2” CTC on that attic ceiling beam on the right of the first pic. It also would have made me move my ceiling support box a few inches to the very corner of my 8-9” square beams that frame the house. My worry here is with the house 175+ years old and visibly not straight as an arrow anymore the first floors beam corner is probably not exactly plumb with where the second floors beam corner is and so on. Moving it a few inches away from the corner gives me a little room to play and also helps in the basement staying a little further away from jack posts and out from directly underneath the beams and 6x6’s.

This will be the only set of offsets in the chimney, 30 degrees with probably a 36” length in between allowing me to shoot over where nothing is in the way at all to go through the top roof.

If I had posted this yesterday and got that response from you before buying the offsets, I may have just knocked that stuff out of the way and hoped for the best. But still I would have had to relocate ceiling support and hope I didn’t run into problems with the firestop shields not fitting where the need to be above it as well as being under the edge of the basement beams with the furnace. Three floors and two roofs, I should have known it wasn’t going to be that easy!

Do you see me having problems trying to clean the chimney? There will probably be 9-10 ft of straight on top of the offsets I'm guessing. Will a poly brush and rods be able to go through this or will I be disconnecting it at the offsets somewhere to clean the chimney?

 

[nomorecold]

The chimney will be straight from the basement ceiling support box about 21-22’ until it hits the first offset with a 3’ length in between them, then about 9’ straight up out of the last offset.

 

[brenndatomu]

The chimney will be straight from the basement ceiling support box about 21-22’ until it hits the first offset with a 3’ length in between them, then about 9’ straight up out of the last offset.

With that total height you will have to make sure there are no cats or small dogs nearby when you are loading...thing ought to suck like a Hoover!
You can clean it with 30* offsets...use a Soot Eater unless you already have a kit.

 

[nomorecold]

Haha, I’m glad to hear it should work out ok cleaning. I’m assuming you are talking about the rotary soot eater by Gardus that you run with a drill? I don't have anything yet for cleaning supplies so I’ll probably pick that up if thats whats recommended.

I am guessing I should clean from the top and bottom rather that buy and attach double the amount of rod it comes with?

Believe me I would have loved to get that scabbed wood out of the way and saved $250 but between that, the basement positioning of the furnace, and my pretty likely (over)draft situation I figured the one set of 30 degree offsets wouldn’t hurt it! Besides that, I only saw a place or two to get them at that price then they are $360 and up depending where you get them. I am hoping to have this thing burning by the end of month if its needed. Ductwork may fall a bit short of that timeline but we’ll make something work safely/temporary if need be!

 

[nomorecold]

I also have to figure out how to make it run my fuel oil furnace blower. I believe its as easy as connecting wires from the junction box on the wood furnace to the fuel oil furnace blower wires with romex rather than the wood furnaces pair of blowers that will be left out. I just dont know right off if its fine to 3 way that connection in the FO furnace so when burning fuel oil it still runs it too or something more complicated has to be done.

 

[brenndatomu]

I am guessing I should clean from the top and bottom rather that buy and attach double the amount of rod it comes with?

Either way...I'd lean toward being able to do it all from the bottom so you don't have to go up on that obviously high roof in the middle if the winter...just buy 2 kits...probably cheaper than buying all that extra rod, and then you have an extra head/parts.